Liel Abada

Should really move this chat to a politics thread, this is about a footballer playing football...it's not just what's going on over there but international break seems to bring out the weirdest conversations on this forum

 

I have no issues with him if he wants to stay and continue to play with us with no opinion against our support. I guess my post is in response to some media claims and I've been reading and some posts on here about him not wanting to play for us anymore and wanting a move because of our supporters stance on palastine. I do suspect * be away soon enough.

 

Where's it say in any of my posts I'm more Provo that anyone. Ridiculous post from you. I can't even see where I'm pro Provo anywhere in this forum ya daft * yee!

 

Mate, no one should blame Palestinians who have this attitude or indeed older people in Ireland for feeling that way; but there are 4 essential points you are missing (starting with the easier ones to explain):

That sometimes a 100% just outcome is not available without a time machine.
That feelings and actions are important to distinguish.
That you often can't have one thing without the other.
That he's right that organisations and schools can and do a play a role. There are multiple causes and multiple responsibilities involved and you can't just point at 1 (even though it is a big one) and make it "the" responsibility.

The first one is simply a fact: Hamas has maximalist aims and explicitly will not brook any compromise: all of Israel must be returned to Palestine. There is justice in this claim if you have access to a time machine; but we don't and you can't make one instance of ethnic cleansing OK by having another in the opposite direction, which is what their goal implies. The idea reminds me of Don McMillan's joke about the guy at Walmart who tries to unscan an item by swiping it right to left. Peace wasn't reached in Ireland through complete justice (that won't happen until Ireland is reunited) but by finding a process both sides could live with.

The second point is important: I do try hard to understand your feelings and those of many Palestinians and I agree that I have no right to judge them. I hope I can see how ordinary Palestinians might feel a certain kind of pleasure at this. It's not evil; it's how human nature reacts under huge suffering. Now compare that to Hamas and what the operation actually was: an incredibly well-planned military operation with the goal of killing and sometimes torturing as many civilians as possible, including kids and even babies, and leaving as much physical and video evidence as possible. This is just evil. It can't be understood and it must be condemned no matter the justice of the cause. That's a difference, you see. Most Palestinians would have celebrated just as much if they had just killed 1,300 soldiers in the area, because it would have been just as big a blow and as big a humiliation for Israel and that is the point for them; but for Hamas, the evil of what they actually did and the response it provoked were just the point.

That brings me to the 3rd point: I can imagine ordinary Palestinians might be happy that Israelis got a little taste of how they feel: the fear, despair and pain. But sometimes one thing implies another and unfortunately, the pain also brings with it the yet more hatred and an even bigger lack of empathy and you can already see that in some of the things even liberal Israelis have been saying to try to justify their actions since. This is also human nature and it moves us away from the possibility of solving the problem not towards it. Again, I think that was part of the point for Hamas. The only viable solution right now is a 2-state solution; but if they derail that and let the Palestinian people keep suffering for yet another generation, then in 25 years, US power is likely to have waned further and their maximalist goal, i.e. ethnic cleansing in the opposite direction might be possible. It looks like they have succeeded there. A good outcome for Hamas and a bad outcome for current generations in the occupied territories. This is what I mean by saying they only care about Palestinian people in the abstract.

The 4th point is that schools and government policy do play a role. Look at Chinese and Vietnamese attitudes towards the West as a clear example. Both suffered greatly (the Vietnamese actually far more recently: there are still older people who were there during the war); but only one country made a conscious choice to hold on to that and teach the grievance to their school children). Of course, an important difference is that the Palestinians are still suffering oppression now; but you have to ask which attitude do we want future generations to have if we want them to have a better future.

There are actually multiple sources of responsibility here because there are multiple actors and multiple causes and the only people who are completely innocent are ordinary Palestinians. We all know that a workable solution will require Israel to cease their occupation, their apartheid ideology and their war crimes, absolutely; but to be viable, it will require something from other responsible parties: it will require the disarming of terrorist groups like Hamas, for Iran to stop funding them, for them to stop teaching an ideology of hate, for Iran and Syria to recognise whatever form of Israel is agreed on and give believable security guarantees, for the US to stop arming Israel (but that can only happen when other things are in place) and probably loads of other things that haven't occurred to me.



In case anyone is interested in the joke I was referring to. It's this:

 

Same here. Anyone born in late 70s, early 80s in strong republican areas it was only natural to want to sign up and fight for Ireland. That's just a given ffs. Especially when you had family connections to the IRA and most of our family where all republican sympathizers! If I was 5 years older I'd have definitely been involved and likewise yourself, as fate has it I'm.now glad I didn't. I was 18 when the good Friday agreement was signed in 1998. The older generation didn't really have another way. If you'd any fight in you, you where in!

It's the same now for these young children in palastine. They just have no other choice! Your family have been brutally murdered, farms stolen etc.. brutalized e everywhere you go and your supposed to just take it without any fight at all and you get posters on here blaming the parents and schools for hating the other side. Very simplistic view from someone who's knows nothing about oppression!

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I wouldn’t trust Leeso to know how to wipe his own *, never mind understand the complexities of the situation in the Middle East or Abada’s feelings on the issue.

 

How long is he out injured for btw?

 

3 or 4 months back in September.. so probably see him after winter break..

 

Good, we’ll have world peace by then!

 

Come off it. You continually talk like you’re this mega-* and the rest of us wouldn’t understand, all to justify your pish.

 

Not being funny, but it's been one thing after another since the start of 2020: the pandemic, war in Ukraine, rampant inflation and now this. If the big man is reading this, a few years of nothing horrible happening are very much owed!

 

Depressing once some idiot starts nuking its done we are *.HH

 

Do you ever consider that all this * is carefully choreographed by the government and the media? Its not just coincidence that as soon as one thing starts drifting out the news......then its straight onto another thing. All to keep the public interest occupied....all to keep people living in fear....to keep people having a constant enemy. If the public are constantly worrying about something else, then they are not concentrating on what the government are doing in the background while all this is going on. Read George Orwell - 1984. He wasnt far wrong. And that was written in the 1920s.

Like you say for the last 20 odd year....it has went Twin Towers, Taliban, Al Qaeda, Sadam Hussain, Osama Bin Laden, Credit Crunch, Recession, Islamic State, Co-Vid, War in Ukraine, now war in Palestine. All of them starting just as the other one starts to fall out the news.

Plus all the while pretty much ignoring wars and civil wars in parts of the world that are of less interest and therefore less relatable to the people here. There are civil wars in some African countries that have went on for 40 odd years....killing millions....and they hardly ever (if at all) make the news in this country. Its all too conveinent and choreographed for all this to happen one thing after another. And you can guarantee that when this conflict in Palestine starts to die down and people dont think about it as much....it'll be straight onto some other crisis. And * knows what naughty * the governments of the world are getting up to while everyone is focused on the constant flow of crisis and fear-mongering that the media force upon the people

 

And before that we had Brexit.

 

Anyway.........Abada will just have to get on with it. He cant dictate which causes people support and which ones they dont. Anton Rogan and later Neil Lennon played for 'Northern Ireland' and had to ignore all the bigoted pish that went along with it...all directed against their people....they had to put up with * Save the Queen getting played before every game and listening to 90 mins of unionist hun bigot fest coming from the crowd. They still played. And that was at international level.....something they didnt have to do.

If its at club level and your being paid an absolute * fortune....then get on with it

(although saying that I have often considered if I would play for rangers if they were paying me 20 grand a week and I dont think that I could do it.....even for 20 grand a week. Unless I sabotaged all their games.....gave away constant penalties and scored constant own goals)

 

Might want to reconsider that @hiphopaddict. From how you describe how you'd play for them you'd be one of their better players. Pretty sure you'd be a nailed on starter.

 

You're mental. I'd play for Goerring's Ku-Klux * Utd for 20 grand a week, let alone Rangers.

 

They could always provide the opposition for the huns instead of the annual orangefest game agaist Linfield

 

Just set up an Only Fans site for yourself.....sell pictures of your bare * and sell your soiled pants to weirdos.....that could make you 20 grand a week if you were good at it.....and you'd still have more morals than playing for rangers. At least you'd be making a more honest living