Celtic Supporters Thread (contains GB chat)

The idea of the USA being the answer to any problem is quite laughable.......

 

I don't understand you. So kill off Hamas to save Palestinian lives. Back in the day, just kill of the IRA then to save catholic lives sure.

It was also political impossible for Martin McGuiness and Ian Paisley to sit in the same building nevermind run a government. Everything is possible with the right thinking and money behind it!

In no circumstances should the one getting bullied get wiped out for rising against it. While I don't agree with what they did the other day, it still doesn't warrent wiping them all out for it. If there ever is a time for peace talks then it's now. Not wiping out as you suggested! That solves * all. They'll just come back with another stradagey!

 

I sort of agree! Them * will be benefiting from all what's going on and as I said previously, I wouldn't be surprised if * there had there hands in all this somehow. Rich greedy men will have alot to gain through all this someway or other.

 

Let me explain:

The reason I said it would save Palestinian lives is that Israeli army is not even going to try to avoid civilain casualties. They are already taking a Russian approach. The American military would try to limit civilian casualties as much as possible and that would lead to fewer of them. Yes, I know that one civilian casualty is one too many; but Hamas deliberately operate out of civilian buildings, so zero civilian casualties is quite impossible.

The reason I said it was politically impossible (and therefore a stupid thing for me to say) is clear:

Netanyahu would remain to blame for the security failings but wouldn't get the so-called "credit" for taking out the perpetrators. No way he would accept that. The US would be saving Palestinian lives by telling Israel to stand down and taking over; but the optics would be quite different. The world's media would show the US military killing Palestinians and, moreover, US service personnel would be killed. No way the US would accept either of those two things.

The political reality means that it was just a moment of stupidity on my part and a ridiculous thing to say thing to say, so I want to forget it.

 

Did you steal that quote from CNN or something? The Americans do not give a * where their drone bombs strike and who they take out, so long as they can cover their arses with taking out X target.

As for the rest of the debacle that is this thread - no Hamas flag was flown, nor is the Palestinian flag an illegal flag that is being flown. VIVA THE RESISTANCE to the people of Palestine indeed. I dread to think how this thread would have been in the 70's/80s if it were the South African thread - plenty posts in here calling the likes of Mandela a terrorist, or Sands etc.

Now, I personally WILL call out any murders against innocent men/women/children. That being said, I've never lived in a war-torn country, nor been the victim of systematic, governmental apartheid/murder - so I cannot say how these historical acts can turn someone into a "revenge" aggressor or whatnot, but the fact that a "supposed" banner from a group of fans showing support to a place in the world where innocent men/women and children have been bombed, brutilized and historically been on the wrong end of war crimes, yet it's a couple of words on a banner that has caused outrage - * take a good look at yourselves in the mirror!

Don't like it? Fine. Support it? Fine.

Bigger things going on here. And think yourselves * lucky that some of you are able to sit in yer livingrooms or whatever on your high speed internet posting whatever it is you think, all the while there are poor * souls picking up the pieces of their loved ones who's body parts are blown half way across the * street!

 

The Americans don’t give a fk about Palestinians didnt the Russians not play a huge part in the Initial set up Formation of the PLO in Palestine.

 

Regarding the American thing, I respect your opinion. Nothing important hangs on this as it was a stupid hypothetical and I regret saying it. We don't have to agree.

Regarding paragraph 2, I haven't seen anyone have a problem with what you say here. I think we pretty much all agree on that. Viva the resistance indeed!

Regarding sitting in living rooms, etc: I don't think anyone has criticised any Palestinian for supporting Hamas (and rightly not, for all the reasons you mention). Some people have been criticising the GB; but the GB also live in a safe country where their loved ones aren't in much danger of being blown to pieces.

Finally, I want to disagree with you about people needing to take a good look at themselves. I'm proud of this place! There is a broad consensus on here that the Palestinians are the main victims in this situation and that slaughtering civillians in the hundreds needs to be condemned. Instead, people are arguing over the exact meaning of a banner and what should or shouldn't have been included in a statement. Compared to some of the horrific takes on most social media platforms, etc (from painting Israel as the good guys and the Palestinians as aggressors at one extreme* to implying that Israeli victims deserved it at the other**), I think folk on here are all pretty reasonable, even the ones I disagree with.


* lot's of that on the MSM too.

** Such as an academic responding to the massacre at a music festival by essentially saying "actions have consequences".

 

It was a stupid hypothetical. I might as well have said I wished my auntie had wheels so I could call her a bicycle. It was stupid, I shouldn't have said it. Let's let it go.

 

My two cents on the GB statement.

Personally, I don't particularly give a *. Their views do not represent me, nor the worldwide Celtic fans. They speak for themselves, and what they say is their own thoughts.

Regarding what they "should have" said - they said exactly what they had to say. If folk wanted to believe that it was a HAMAS flag, then perhaps they should have actually done some investigation as to what the wording meant in Arabic - as opposed to speculation. It's not the GB's place to put people's minds at ease, when it's their own minds that have conjured up such thoughts.

And, unfortunately in armed combat, indeed actions do have consequences. Such is the evils of the way this world works...

 

You still don't get it with trying to explain it differently! Hamas have a right to fight for the freedom of palastine! You saying you'd welcome sending Americans in to wipe them out is taking sides of the oppressor and IMO is disgusting! While I don't agree with how they went about what they did, any right thinking man knows if ya do what the Israels have done then your leaving them with no other choice! I will ever see it from your point of view.

 

Well said sir. Free palestine.HH

 

UEFA must really hate us being in the Champions League, especially if we have a Palestinian flag show at the next game. I wouldn't be surprised with dodgy refereeing from now on, they probably won't want to have us back. At the same time, they shot themselves in the foot by allowing Ukrainian flags and such.

I sent the football Scotland story about the Green Brigade statement to my very left / socialist Irish mum (who thought it was great) and to a BBC Arabic producer who I used to work with, who was - Come on Celtic! We're in it now, there's no going back, so there's no point apologising to the MSM, as once you do, you get jumped on even more.

I hope there's a lot of flags at the next CL game.

 

Did anyone think that was a HAMAS flag? I thought folk were just going on the timing. FWIW, I don't believe they were showing support for what happened and have said so a few times.

As far as consequences go, I think we can both agree that going to a music festival in the country you were born and brought up in should not have the consequence of being brutally murdered just because of what your government has done. Anyone that starts down that path (not saying you!) should note that the same twisted logic can be (and I'll bet probably is being) used by sick people to justify Israel's current seige and bombardment. "Hundreds of Palestinian civilians killed already? Well, they voted for HAMAS and actions have consequences."

 

Interesting times ahead

 

That is not what I suggested.

I was alluding to more along the lines of, well let me give an example - If a lion is encaged and is constantly poked, prodded, mistreated, bullied, victimised, his kin murdered in front of his eyes, child slaughtered etc etc, do not be surprised when the lion attacks back - regardless of who is in the crowd, or if it wasn't them who was the aggressor.

Is it right? No. IS it understandable? Perhaps. Could it have been avoided? 100%

 

I've been very clear on this: I do NOT condemn violent military resistance to Israel and you will not find me doing that anywhere in this thread. You will not, for example, find me condemning the attacks on military posts or the taking of military hostages even this weekend. I do condemn murdering hundreds of non-combatants in cold blood. They are not at all the same thing. If you condone that, then you will be the first person I've ever put on ignore in over a decade on this forum.

Yes, I neither condemn nor condone (and indeed can understand) the decision of Israel to wipe out the leadership of HAMAS for this. I DO condemn their decision to do it through this brutal seige, bombardment and coming ground invasion that will cost the lives of thousands of innocent Palestinians. They should bide their time and use special forces or a drone in a targeted strike like with Zawahiri months from now when they have the intelligence; but that would be the end for Netenyahu long before, so he was never going to choose that. Hopefully one day, he ends up in the Hague for that.

I made a stupid conjecture that the US might be less brutal than the IDF and kill fewer civilians because this invasion is going to happen, not because I think it would somehow be morally fine as long as the US did it. I have already admitted that this was a stupid thing to say.

 

That’s the American attitude towards children killed during conflicts.

 

Which is why I have never condemned any attacks on the IDF. But young people at a music festival are just living their lives not poking anything. They didn't get caught in the crossfire, they were deliberately targeted.

 

I know the quote you are referring to without watching it. It's the "worth it" quote, right? She's another one that should be in the Hague.