Nir Bitton

I feel very odd about the whole thing. I don't see what Hamas's endgame is or how this can benefit the people in Gaza. When I start to make a mental list of who might benefit from this, the Palestinian people aren't on there. I've seen claims that Russia was involved. I wouldn't rule that out completely, but I can't say I'm overly convinced. More plausibly, perhaps it helps Netanyahu (must admit this was my first thought): he's been in real trouble and this just magically solves a lot of that for him. He'll presumably enjoy a "rally round the flag" effect, reservists are no longer refusing to report for duty and by declaring war, he plausibly has an excuse to give himself the extra powers he needs to push through his authoritarian agenda. If that turns out to be right, it's bad news for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Equally, maybe it's some political thing Hamas is doing to retain its power, or a result of some kind of internal struggle within Hamas, or some ideological thing. Clearly, I don't know; but I can't see a plausible explanation for this that ends up benefiting the Palestinians. For that reason, I feel odd about the banner.

 

Absolutely. I can't see how the Palestinians win, unless the other Arab nations come to their help, which would mean a huge war, especially as the Us are backing Israel as expected....

 

He’s just seen 700 of his own people get massacred and the morons in our support literally signal their support of it on the same day… the same group who will wave an LGBT flag by the way without realising the irony that Palestine punishes same * activity with up to 10 years in jail
Not to mention we’ve literally got a young Israeli in our squad who is probably terrified about his families safety and not a word of support from them.. yet he’s an *?

 

* him. Bloodthirsty c#nt.

Look at his twitter history.

He craves dominance under the flag of freedom

 

See to be honest can't be arsed with all this politics. Mind you, it's more terrorism ain't it.

I like big Nir, and his beliefs are different to others, do I care, no. Its sad how things can turn out though.

Just wish we'd leave all this kinda stuff alone, what actual good will it really do in the end? Nowt, just like the knife crime culture, let's get this player to say this and that, young girl stabbed to death last week.

 

It’s a bit different to knife crime.

Players are asked to talk about it because a lot of offenders are young men, who look up to these players or come from similar backgrounds in London.

 

He has also seen thousands upon thousands of Palestinian men, woman and children butchered over his lifetime and their land stolen from them to create settlements. Has he ever spoken up about this? No he hasn’t because he will think that Palestinians are lesser than he is. They morons in our support you speak of have shown support for Palestine for a number of years, and the display on Saturday was not really different to others. So saying it is showing support for Hamas and the kidnappings and killings witness is guesswork. Did you see a Hamas flag flying? Or does the Palestine flag upset you?

What the display has done though is once again draw attention to the conflict. So hopefully it makes more people look into the history behind it and gives more support to the Palestinian people. If that happens then the display has been successful.

As for Abada, we don’t know how he feels about it. It is possible to condemn the kidnappings and killings we seen from Hamas whilst also being able to acknowledge that Israel has been committing far worse crimes over decades towards innocent Palestinians. If our fans support for Palestine upsets Abada, so be it.

 

Who would do that, though? Jordan? Lebanon isn't remotely strong enough, Syria has too many internal problems, Iraq is a basketcase, Egypt needs the US too much, Lybia and Saudi Arabia are too far away, etc. It's hard to imagine.

 

I don't mean any disrespect here, but I honestly think you're missing the point. Empathy for the Palestinians in no way means you can't have empathy for frightened Israelis too. At some point, the message has to get through to Israel about its own responsibility for this: that when you not only oppress people but also use your overwhelming power to deny them any legitimate means of fighting back, then some of your victims will choose to use illegitimate means (such as deliberately targeting civilians). But that day isn't today. The time to process that is not when your country has just been the victim of an extremely evil terror attack.

The fact that Israel has inflected great pain on the Palestinians is relevant in so many areas of this issue; but not when it comes to deciding whether to emphasise with the pain and fear of Israeli non-combatant victims and their community.

The banner wasn't directed at Israelis (if I'm wrong and it was, I'm 100% against it), it was (I hope) aimed at the Palestinians. A very legitimate expression of support because, let's face it, what Hamas did is going to cause more suffering to them even than it did to Israelis. I support the banner.

But we also have to empathise with Bitton's situation and understand how this will feel to him. Of course he's going to take it the way he did and respond the way he has. The Twitter warriors should just stop being insensitive jerks, leave him the * alone and concentrate on what support they might be able to give to the Palestinians.

 

I’m not missing the point whatsoever. The main person who has missed the point and caused this debate is Bitton. He is the one who has chose to have a go at Celtic fans supporting Palestine and their people. Not Hamas, Palestine. Something he will have been well aware of when he played here, but chose to say nothing on the subject. It’s obvious why he chose not to speak out as well. So choosing to speak out now just shows that he has no regard for the loss of Palestinian life and wasn’t bothering his * before, but when his own people are being killed it’s then time for him to lift his head above the parapet. He, and likeminded people are part of the problem.

The dig he then had at our support claiming they know nothing about the conflict and couldn’t tell you where Israel is was also moronic. When you take into consideration he has never spoke out about Israel and their heinous crimes, but has chose to now, I think it’s he himself that should learn about the history of the conflict, rather than having a go at our support.

When he posted what he did, he will have fully expected a backlash. Because he calls into question the intelligence of our support. The way in which he went about, and the wording he chose was all wrong.

The message isn’t ever getting through to Israel, that’s the main issue here. They have been allowed to oppress the Palestinian people and commit crimes against humanity for over 50 years, with the helping hand of their buddies the US. They do not think that Palestinians have the right to exist. That’s not changing any time soon, if ever at all.

It’s just a shame that it takes Israelis being killed for the conflict to make the headlines.

 

He have no choice really. He would probably get lynched if he said anything not pro israeli.

 

Iran

 

I thought about Iran, they definitely could; but they aren't an Arab country and I guess I took you too literally.

 

You are missing the point. Far from helping to end them, this sort of moralistic, unempathetic attitude is exactly what perpetuates these things in an escalatory spiral. Why can you only empathise with one side's suffering here? This is entirely separate from saying that both sides are equally responsible (they mostly aren't) or are equally to blame (they absolutely aren't) or that their suffering is equal (it isn't); but both sides are suffering a great deal and any truly ethical actor who genuinely wants to help the Palestinians will take that into account in choosing what to say and when. Even on a practical level, do you think this kind of timing will make him think, "You know what. They're right. My government has been running an apartheid system and inflicting all kinds of violence on the Palestinians." or will he feel even more under attack and even more justified in any response Israel gives. I know what I would predict.

You haven't even answered my point about him having been brought up in a web of propaganda since he was a young kid. Did most British people alive in the 50's not care about the suffering the British empire inflicted in Malaysia and Kenya in the 50's? Were they all bad people? Or were they systematically ignorant due to a web of lies, obfuscations and pseudo-justifications and ideology, some of which they had been fed since childhood.

The reason the message isn't getting through to Israel is because of systematic support from the US and a willfully blind eye from the EU, not because people empathise with their suffering or refrain from verbally kicking them when they're down.

 

When have I said I don’t empathise with Israeli civilians being kidnapped and killed? I’ve never once said I agree with what Hamas done the other day, because I don’t. Not even sure how you have reached that conclusion in all honesty.

Being brought up in a web of propaganda isn’t an excuse for being happy to not speak out against your country slaughtering innocent people, like his country have done for decades. It’s common * decency. Something Bitton clearly lacks, and the fact that you and others are trying to find a way to justify Bitton’s position is appalling in my opinion.

The reason the message isn’t getting through is because most Israelis think they are above Palestinians. It’s that simple.

Oh, and in case you are interested, Bitton has doubled down on his stance. Please see below. It would appear that Bitton clearly thinks Israel has done nothing wrong over the years. So he must agree with the killing of innocent Palestinians and seeing them having their land stolen. As I’ve said, the guy is an utter *, and the instagram post below just confirms that.

 

Nir Bitton is born and brought up in Israel and doctorined with an Israel first mindset, can see why he is constantly going on about it, I can't blame him as a person that's his belief. You won't convince him otherwise as it's almost fused into him from birth that he is 100% correct whereas there is always two sides to a story. Really sad state of affairs for Palestinians or moreso those in the Gaza strip. I have staunch Israeli friends who are giving the same chat.

End of the day women and children suffering on both ends. the soldiers should stop being soyboys drop their weapons, and go fight hand to hand actually much like Chinese and Indian soldiers did a 2 years ago over a dispute as they weren't allowed to draw weapons.

 

That's the second post where you've argued in great detail for a position we both agree on. If that doesn't prove you're missing the point, I don't know what does. Let me put it in a single sentence so it's clear where we disagree: this is the point I'm making:

Nothing in the justice of the Palestinian cause, the responsibility of the Israeli state or the fact that Nir Bitton sees the issue from the point of view of his side and doesn't understand his country's responsibility means that it is either justified or helpful to treat a former player with a complete lack of understanding or empathy.

All the other stuff you wrote about the Palestinian cause and Israeli responsibility, we agree on.

 

No. You think Bitton is justified in his stance and response to the Celtic fans because he is an Israeli. I disagree on this as there are plenty Israelis who will condemn the actions of Israel. So if these people can see the actions of their country are appalling, why can’t Bitton? The fact he sees no problem and has now doubled down saying asking what land Israel has stolen tells you all you need to know about his character. He shows an ignorance, and one that is the main reason why Palestinians have, and will continue to be oppressed by Israel.

 

100% agree, and hand-to-hand combat between soldiers should replace typical conflicts- a modern version of knight duels in the Middle Ages.

 

No, I don't. I think his response is understandable and that he should be treated with the same respect and care as any other human being in a vulnerable state of mind. That's very different. In fact, I don't think his response is justified and when he is in a less frightened and upset state of mind, I absolutely think people should respectfully point out why he is wrong.