Champions League Celtic v Lazio Wednesday 4th of October kick off 8PM TNT Sports 3/Celtic TV

I'm angry because I'm sick of it. Can we be competitive given our league and our limited income? Surely not. But what exactly do we mean by "not competitive", mate?

By "not competitive", I would understand that if you made a list of the most feared venues in Europe, Celtic Park wouldn't be close to getting on that list anymore. OK, fair enough. There are legitimate reasons for that.

That is not the reality, though. The reality is that if you made a list of the top 5 easiest places to pick up points in CL history, then Celtic Park would have to be on that list (specifically 4th easiest). By the end of this group, we will be joint top of this list if we don't get a win against either AM or Feyenoord.

That's not being "not competitive"; that's embarrassing.

Then let's not get into our EL record. In the 20 years since we last won a knockout tie in the UEFA Cup/Europa League proper, the Huns have been to 2 finals. According to Wikipedia, they've also reached the Round of 16 3 times too.

There's not being competitive in Europe and then there's this.

 

Having a manager for max 2 to 3 years and selling your best players every season and not replacing quality for quality majes it almost impossible to build an experienced decent enough team that's learned from their mistakes at Europe and are improving and getting better.

We always look like the noobs

 

Bang average? The team that finished 2nd in a league that had a team in the final and another in the SF is bang average?
The Dutch Champions that just went to Madrid and almost got a draw are bang average? Behave.
Are they among the strongest teams in the CL draw? No. But they're not bang average either.

 

Last time we were a tough team to go against, the manager followed pragmatic, utilitarian ideas on football. We do not have the tools to play the same way in Scotland and Europe. Yet fans don't want Moyes, Ranieri, Benitez or Glasner, but * over Bielsa or Potter.

 

Hope so

 

Its sometimes easier to accept if you get outclassed. Its when we run the teams really close, deserve to win the game, yet still lose. That hurts more than say last season getting beat 0-3 off Real Madrid.

I said it as soon as we were drawn in this group. I said there is not a big top class Champions League team in our group for a change. You write those games off playing against PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barca etc. You dont expect to get anything from those games.

Every game in this group home and away we are capable of taking something from. When we dont do it.....it hurts more

 

I was thinking about Moyes last night: big, strong guys, crosses and set pieces, defensively organised and quick on the counter... He'd definitely improve our record in Europe.

Trouble is, it doesn't lead anywhere in the long run. Long-term, it's a dead end. So we'd be hard to beat and would pick up the odd win; but we'd have to accept that as our ceiling. At least with Ange and Rodgers, you can see how they could build something. Also, Moyes would have to be backed too. That kind of strength and pace may not be as expensive as sublime skill; but it's not cheap either.

 

it doesnt benefit us pretending they are better they are , both were there for the taking even after our shambolic transfer window . instead of moving the ball foward at pace to give our attacking players a chance of getting a slight advantage we go slowly side to side hoping for an opportunity to present itself rather than forcing the issue .

 

I'd take a ceiling of getting to CL knockouts once every 3 years. Whose hand do I bite off? The European results of Strachan and Lennon * all over the results of the more progressive managers that followed them.

If I were manager, I'd build a roster of 2 kinds of players: one group for domestic games, and one for European ties. *, just scraping by to be league winners is OK, as long as we are decent in Europe again.

 

We definitely need 3 or 4 quality players mate, no arguments there. But I'd rather wait and get the right ones in than rushing in and spending big money on duds.

I might be overly optimistic but for me Rodgers had to come in, assess what we have and then decide what's needed. If that means leaving transfers to the next transfer window, so be it. As I said, time will tell on the backing he gets.

 

The guys on 67HailHail touched on this (assuming your still talking about Parkhead's atmosphere relating to our home record) and how as a support we're probably collectively traumatised/apathetic when it comes to these games and that's translating as frustration and angst aimed at the players performances - but while it might explain it, it doesn't really justify it.

It's not Matt O'Riley's fault that PSG smashed 5 past us, it's not Johnston's fault that we lost crucial games against Cluj or Ferencvaros, it's not Hatate's fault we conceded soft goals to Valencia, Copenhagen etc.

The support and the players need to work in symbiosis to gee each other up but we seems stuck in a negative spiral of frustration and defeat, even before a ball is kicked (see the summer window dominating everyones thoughts/discussions)

 

I still cannot believe how bad that officiating was last night man..

When was the last time we ever got a fair crack or * forbid a favourable referee in Europe?

How in the name of * that left back stayed on for the premeditated forearm smash in to Hatate's face is beyond me. VAR no even flagging it up is scandalous..

Carter-Vickers gets a bicycle kick to the forehead....OK it was accidental but we've seen many instances where dangerous/reckless play has seen VAR intervene and ask the ref to go to the monitor..

All night he was letting fouls or high boots go on us and giving them the softest of freekicks..

Winds me up badly..

We were unlucky last night but that officiating isn't bad luck, it's disgustingly inept from all of them..

 

I wasn't talking about the atmosphere in that post. I wasn't there.

Also, I don't get what the bit in bold has to do with anything. It's not like the support is punishing the players, so "fault" is not relevant. It's simply that they aren't performing seals and can't turn the excitement, belief and passion on when all they're actually feeling is nerves, worry, fear or resignation.

 

Been said already we are to soft/polite.When in Europe as soon as something like that happens our players need to be in the refs face screaming for action to be taken,like last night when hatate got the smack we should have been running amok with the officials and opposing players.

Also the club needs to act,its not bad loser talk here its simply a case of us looking for a fair crack at it.

 

3 weeks time

 

I was reading a thing about officiating in the UK and why its failing week in week out. People calling for foreign refs again to help fix it.

Some of the decisions in the first 2 game weeks of European football across a lot of games has been horrendous. The worst bit is the lack of input from VAR.

A high boot is one of the most commonly called and easy to call fouls in the game. Its black and white when it happens, there’s no debate. It happened what 3 times last night? The O’Riley one is mental to me.

These are meant to be the top tier referees and they wouldn’t look out of place in Sunday league.

 

Just seen the highlights for the first time and it's as infuriating as I remember it. Maeda is easily the most wasteful player I can remember at us. Got himself into some excellent positions then just absolutely shites the bed with his woeful technique.

Had enough chances to win it, just as always we cave and concede pish goals. We are good enough to compete at this level, I think we just need a win to give us an initial boost. Then from there start believing in ourselves, maybe the odd bit of vision to play it forward would be nice.

Am not oblivious to us needing better quality as well btw, but it's more than just that that's holding us back. And Rodgers is thee man to help us get there, and he will imo.

 

Sorry, skipped a few pages there from this morning

Here's the video that I was referring to. They probably make the point better than I do..
https://www.youtube.com/live/KpkSpAsRzDE?si=bc4E-T5Qn8KW0XtX

 

Doesn’t make it any less of a massive kick in the nuts but there has been many times in the past were we got what we deserved but I think we can genuinely consider ourselves very unfortunate won’t to at least get a draw. The ball barely touches Maeda’s boot places which rules the Palma goal offside, no matter how you dress that up we were literally millimetres from getting a very good result. It was just good old fashioned bad luck in that instance.