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Not Actually that Crucial a Summer as of August 2023...beginning to now think everything isnt fine!

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by Mr Shelby, May 3, 2023.

Discuss Not Actually that Crucial a Summer as of August 2023...beginning to now think everything isnt fine! in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Blochairnbhoy

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    Saving it again for a rainy day. From an accounting perspective to hoard all the jota cash wouldn't be beneficial to us
     
  2. McChiellini..

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    100%..

    We need at least 4 signings still for me

    Keeper
    Left back
    Winger
    Centre mid

    All first team ready..

    Keeper is a must, most can see Hart slowing up. Was signs of it last season but we got by, pre season he's been rusty as *. Our backups are pish..

    Left back maybe wasn't a priority but playing a different way has shown that Taylor isn't that guy. Bernabei is a joke of an option..

    The other positions we know. Sold arguably our best player and most creative for a record fee. Needs replaced..

    Centre mid. He wants more power and that's what we need in there as well as more legs and quality in general..

    Could argue over a 10. Another right winger. More options at centre half. Maybe another number 9..

    We'll have to ship plenty out and see what transpires in the coming weeks..

    I'm expecting us to be really busy..
     
  3. oh bhoy

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    What's the point of acquiring all that money if not to spend it on those next level players , We can't spend £15m on a player all the while having about 15 players who cost a lot more and of absolutely no use to the first team,makes no sense
     
  4. Sean Daleer Show Israel the Red Card Gold Member

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    We've signed 5 players.
     
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  5. Taxman Lights of Lisbon Gold Member

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    That Sky Sports interview with Brendan today solidified what most feared / suspected;

    There will be no marquee or statement replacement for Jota. I think another winger may come in potentially, but as he said a few times in the interview- "Has to fit the club's model", which is of course to buy relatively cheap talent, improve them and sell them for profit.

    We're definitely going to get at least 2 more in the door but if any of them cost more at £6m I'd be very surprised.

    Fully appreciate that the club's model has been the same for a long time, but when there's all this talk of making big improvements in Europe - that's not realistically ever going to happen if we strictly stick by our current model. Once the talent is very good, they leave us, so we're forever caught in a loop of pre-prime talents leaving as they are about to hit their prime and never really having a settled squad full of prime talents that can take us to that next step.

    We can of course continue to dominate domestically with the model and we can still do well in Europe, but I don't think we'll reach that point where we're consistently on better level in terms of group progression (under this model).

    I do agree with what Brendan said regarding there being plenty talent for cheaper prices, we've seen that plenty of times -- the problem is if we don't keep that talent or spend the profits on a like-for-like replacement in terms of talent, progression in Europe is almost impossible.

    With Jota for example, are we going to spend all that money on someone £15m+ to replace him, of course not, it's not sustainable. But could we spent £8m of it on getting a very good player who can play close to the level Jota was playing at and still have good re-sale value? Absolutely. Instead we choose the route of a £2.2m young winger and accept we will very likely sell them for profit down the road, but not the same level as what we just lost.
     
  6. The Thumb

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    He said no 15-20m signings.. there's a substantial difference between that and 5-10m.
     
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  7. BhoyFitz

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    Great post. You’ve pinpointed everything that’s wrong about our ‘approach’. Now, I wasn’t expecting three or four very big signings, or some majorly spectacular marquee player, but I thought we’d have aimed higher than we have done. We’ll probably be okay domestically but how do the board and Rodgers think we won’t get * rag-dolled all over Europe if we don’t improve on what we already have? There’s time yet, obviously, but this has been a very underwhelming window so far - let’s hope they redeem themselves a bit before the end of it. Not holding my breath though.
     
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  8. Taxman Lights of Lisbon Gold Member

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    There is, but we aren't a side who typically goes out and spends £10m on a player. We've signed players between £6m and £10m when we've had them on loan and seen how talented they are for us over the course of a season -- but I don't expect we're going to go out and spent £8m-£10m type price on a player (unless it was a loan to buy and happens next year).

    If fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but Julien is the only player we've bought in that price range (8-10 million) in the last 10+ seasons - that hasn't been on loan first.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
  9. Wee Baldy

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    Totally. We have wasted good money on signing guys like McCarthy, Bernabei, Barkas and Soro etc. who have contributed * all whatsoever. If we do need to spend a bit more money on a proven player who is then able to fit right into the team then so be it as, going back to the old failed transfer system, will just see us stagnating as a club with no ambition in taking the next step.
     
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  10. ILoveTheCeltic

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    I don't know why people are still worried about where guys come from or for what prices.

    We've signed loads of quality from all kind of teams and backgrounds for peanuts consistently for years now and as long as that continues then we'll be doing fine. People always saying if we sign 3 guys for £6million each i'll be happy.

    But what if the 4 guys come in like Ajer, Frimpong, Abada and Giakoumakis and only cost about £6million combined.
     
  11. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    Yes mate it was me, only reason i did it is because i don't like carrots. :50: :BR1:
     
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  12. Taxman Lights of Lisbon Gold Member

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    That isn't really the point of what people are saying.

    The point is more the fact that if the club model only consists of signing pre-prime talents for cheap prices to sell on for profit when they reach their prime, we never really improve, especially in Europe.

    You can spend £2-3m on a cheap, you talent and by the time he's reached the level that he could really help improve the club at a Champions League level, he's sold and we rinse and repeat that -- which is fine in terms of domestic dominance, for the most part.

    Or, we could occasionally sign a player who is already at a good level, won't be looking to use us as a stepping stone in 2 years to secure a Premier League move and gives us that immediate improvement at a European level.

    I'm not talking about spending £15m on a player, far from it. But I mentioned Václav Černý as a potential Jota replacement, only 25, in his prime, had a fantastic season for Twente last season (better statistically that Jota, in a better league). He ended up going to Wolfsburg for €8m. He'd (for example) have been a fantastic signing, wouldn't have broken the bank, would immediately fill the gap Jota left and still has potential re-sale value (if we did sell him on). We instead are adamant of sticking to £1-3m and selling them before they reach their prime.

    True improvement is impossible if that's all we stick to, we will stay at the same level.
     
  13. murphy88

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    We should be looking at bringing in players at the calibre of Jota and CCV. To bring them here, it cost us £6-7m each. Of course there are examples of bringing in boys for cheap that have done well. There’s even more examples of bringing boys in for peanuts who have been dumplings.

    The way Rodgers spoke when he took over, it very much indicated a shift in our transfer model in my opinion. One that sees us pushing the boat out a little and bringing in maybe 3 or 4 players at the £6-7m bracket. For what’s it’s worth, I still think we will bring in a couple at that, it’s just taking longer to get these players as they will undoubtedly have other offers and are perhaps waiting to see what European competition the teams wanting them will play in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
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  14. Mr Shelby Moderator Moderator Gold Member

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    I think id rather two £6m players and one in the region of £3-5m than put that into one player anyway.

    I mean I wouldn't moan but still.
     
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  15. Leone Naka Fan

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    I'm the opposite- I love solving one problem at a time, but solving it properly. So, spending massive money on one position is what I'd love to see us do.
     
  16. PaddyJamieson

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    Agreed. This would do us more good than one "marquee", so to speak.
     
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  17. ILoveTheCeltic

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    I think though that guys who cost £7million are still as unproven as guys who cost £500k, its still the bottom end of the transfer market and really unproven players you are buying. Anyone proven to be good for Celtic for example is worth £10million+ and will probably be looking for a move to get £50k+ a week. Anyone not proven at a club like Celtic is not worth much money and their price is only really higher or lower depending on who they play for and in what country.

    The problem with bigger money though is the wages, usually guys going for £10-15million say will be wanting £40-50k a week at least. Even if we have excess money we can't really change the wage structure as thats what our maximum is.

    If that guy went to Wolfsburg he's probably being paid £40k minimum a week, maybe £50k or more. He'd never have came here.
     
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  18. themouth1888

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    Correct we've had a few successes. But we also have a list a mile long of donkeys via 1-2mil signings and loans.

    If financially we were still struggling then yes we need to stick with it but we're not.

    I'm not saying go mental but we don't have to be the guinea pigs now. We can afford the next level up with a view of still developing on for a profit.
     
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  19. Blochairnbhoy

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    See if we signed 2 x £7m and got a marquee loan and kept the players we wanted everyone will be delighted
     
  20. Taxman Lights of Lisbon Gold Member

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    Same could be argued for any signings of any price then, but the fact remains that there are proven talents out there, that are within our range, that won't be demanding 40k plus a week.

    They are talented prospects, who are undoubtedly talented and attract interest from good sized European clubs, that we could absolutely go in for.

    There has to be a balance of course, no-one is suggesting we should only be signing guys that cost £8m+, but at the same time, we shouldn't only be signings guys that are under that price either.

    Gustav Isaksen for example, AC Milan had agreed a €10m fee with Midtjylland for him, they ended up signing Chukwueze instead and the Isaksen deal was then withdrawn. I don't think signing someone like him for €10m is unrealistic, especially considering we made a decent enough profit on Jota and his contribution needs replaced now, not in 3 years time.

    Realistically we're never going to spend £8m+ on a few players in a window, but to think we should be able to spend that amount on one area where we've lost one of our top players isn't unrealistic. Again, this boils down to if this whole "wanting to make big improvements in Europe" talk is the real deal. We won't make any of progress in Europe with our current model, we've years of evidence to support that.