Ange Postecoglou

Sincerity does matter in my eyes, yes.

No problem with the job he done with us on and off the park but if you don't mean something, don't say it. Particularly if you're sure it's the exact opposite of the truth.

 

People change, things change. I think he probably meant it when he said it, but things changed.

How many people say " 'till death do us part" and a few years later are in the divorce courts.

Were they lying when the said it? Of course not, they believed it at the time, but things change people change.

I love what Ange did for us and hope he can do the same at Spurs

 

Ange has never stayed at any job particularly long though and I never got the impression he would be at us any longer than 3 years

 

Everyone before hand always said his best season was his 2nd. Imo it was his first. We fell flat after Christmas. So I didn't see a massive uptick coming this season if ange was still here. He's left us a great team, loads of cash and we've replaced him with a manager that's got a history of improving what he's given for 2 seasons. If he improves anges team to the extent he improved ronnys team then wow we are in for a treat. So thanks ange. Time to let Rodgers take over and take us further than we could ever expect.

 

I disagree I thought we were good for a period after Christmas until the league cup final

 

Maybe Christmas was exaggerating the time scale but for a good couple months we certainly went flat. I'm not counting after the league was won. Didn't care about that.

 

The only one of those that really ticks me off is BR, because he upped and outed midway through a season. Had he told Leicester, "thanks, happy to join at the end of the season", I would've been ok with that, as it would've given the club time to find a suitable fulltime replacement, rather than asking Lennon to come in on a temp basis, which then lead to them offering it to him fulltime because he was already there. The whole bit about it being his dream job undoubtedly left a really sour taste in the mouth because it was midway through the season and the job far from being done.

The fact is, no manager has done more than 5 years in charge (in a single spell) since the days of Jock Stein. 4 managers in the first 90 years of the club. There have been 18 full time managers appointed in less than the last 44 years since. Not difficult to do the maths and work out the average length of a manager being at the club since 1978.

One club players are rare nowadays, and even those that do a decade of service to the first team or are entitled for a testimonial, apart from the even more rare one like Henrik, for instance. Forrest's will be just the 5th (I think) since the turn of the millenium (Boyd, Henrik, Jackie Mac, Brown... and a couple of memorial ones, for Phil O'Donnell & Tommy Burns), highlighting how rare they are. The legends of Jimmy McGrory refusing to leave (and was punished for it severely by the club for years afterwards), Danny McGrain not wanting to leave or Paul McStay choosing to stay are the exceptions rather than the rule.

Player's careers are short, so either looking to take what they can while they can, or look to have as many different challenges as possible to push them, those that are just journeymen that play a season or two here or there and move on. Then there are those that the club are looking to cash in on. Aiden McGeady comes to mind, but is far from the only one. Does anyone who think as an aspiring youngster his dream move away from Paradise would be to go to Russia? No. He went because the club was looking to cash in on an asset, to help finance a squad rebuild and he went because the money they offered in personal terms was right for him. Few get the opportunity to have the chance to build an entire legacy at one club.

To say that the Asian players are more or less loyal to our club than anyone else is also a generalization, not to mention being a bit naive. Yes, there is a reason why they came to Celtic. And yes, Kyogo, for example, may've signed a contract extension recently, but who is to say what the future holds? Players sign contracts but things change. A year ago we signed Jota on a perm deal, and now he has gone for £25m or something. Having another crack at the Champions League may be the incentive for some to stay for now, but who is to say if we don't progress from the Group stage and a huge bid comes in January for someone like Hatate, for example, what then? If there was a strong affinity with a single club it's more likely to be in Japan than it is in Scotland. That is just trying to be realistic.

 

You've hit the nail on the head here. I wanted Ange to stay but we could actually go up a gear with the Rodgers appointment going on his track record.

 

Had to laugh in his very first press conference for spurs he said "he won't be here forever", and I know he said it within a certain context but still gave me a chuckle.

 

BR left Celtic in a healthy state and he would not have predicted them handing Lennon the job. The club offering him it full time is on them not BR.

 

Eddie mate, I know the guy is back in charge now but you can't rewrite history. When BR left in the start of March 2019, we were 7 points clear, 10 games to play, including 2 games v Sevco. From the time NL took over we drew 3 times (0-0 H v Dons, 0-0 H v Livi & 0-0 A v Hibs) and lost one of those 2 games v Sevco.

Allowing for the fact Celtic beat Sevco in one of those games, and won the other 5, that is 18 points, plus 3 from those 3 draws above for a total of 21. Add to this the +7 point lead (and a negligible GD advantage) that NL inherited makes 28 points.

Had Sevco won all 9 of their remaining 10 games at that same point of the season, including the 1 game they did win v us and allowing for the one we beat them, that is 27. On that math Celtic still narrowly finish top on 87 but the margin is just 1 point, 87-86.

The point being, had Sevco won those games and made the run-in a real title race, we would like to think that we would have won, but it is far from certain and real squeaky * time.

Also he left virtually on the eve of the Scottish Cup QF v Hibs. Again, yes, we did go on to win but in cup competitions there is always uncertainty, and to say the least, we all know away at Easter Road can be pretty tricky and far from a nailed on certainty. Add to that BR's sudden departure just before, it could have had the potential to distabilize the team.

The bottom line is, at the beginning of March 2019 when BR left, there was no certainty we were going to win the League. There was no certainty of us winning the Scottish Cup. He was out the door and down the road, eyes firmly fixed on Leicester and whatever happened here no longer mattered. This is not a healthy state.

By contrast, Ange made sure the job was done. No unfinished business. No strings left loose. No doubts over what would happen the rest of the season. The title sealed, set CCV off to go have his op so he would be ready for the start of this season (or as close to as possible), and closed out by securing the Cup and by extension the Treble in the Paradise before he left. That is a healthy state.

 

If he does well at Tottenham I think there's a good chance that he'd take over at Man City when Pep leaves.

 

Well we were surprised tbf.

 

Spot on.

 

Wonder what anges reasons were for him rotating the squad so much right at the end if he knew he was ultimately off

 

Great post. Ange might be as full of * as Rodgers (although I'm not sure he's quite that full of it TBH, it's a high bar), but from a professional point of view, their departures were night and day. I've forgiven Rodgers and welcome him back; but as far as I'm concerned, Ange has done nothing that needs to be forgiven. I wish him luck.

Which isn't to say I'll necessarily believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

 

Professionalism?

 

TLDR

I meant healthy place as in good infrastructure medical and coaching set up that with investment over the following transfer window should have ensured titles for years to come and he is not responsible for the club * that up the wall by being complacent and rehiring Lennon. That decision is on the board and the board only.

 

I don't think I can agree with this. He did change the culture here and the coaching setup and that has had long-lasting benefits; but we shouldn't overstate that, because in fact he took half of this setup with him when he left. Moreover, although this was still a net positive, the scouting and player recruitment aspect was absolutely gutted in his time here. Overall, I'd say those two factors maybe balance themselves out.

Ange comes out ahead there too for me. Rodgers brought in his own guy (Congerton), who didn't even do a very good job and then left shortly after Rodgers. Ange worked together with our guy (Mark Lawwell) to build a system that should hopefully see us in good stead going forward even now that he has moved on.

For me, Rodgers is a world-class coach and nothing else. As long as he is kept to what he is good at, I'm happy to have him back. Ange was also an excellent coach (personally, I suspect he's perhaps not quite as good a coach as Rodgers but time will tell) but clearly had a lot more strings to his bow as a manager.

 

Not only this, but this time last year Ange overhauled the way the academy was being structured also, so that it's more in line and inspired by the way Alex Ferguson had at Man U, back in the day. Considering that produced the likes of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and the Neville brothers to name but a few is evidence of that potential for success. It's not exactly thje same but the framework is there, designed to not only make it easier for youth players to the step up if they're ready or potential to be good enough from the U/ages right through.

it also means that everyone from the first team down, tactically speaking, are singing from the same songbook. Of course this has only been in place for a year so may take a little while to see the benefits of this on the first team, but that there is a clear pathway for these youngster that they can see.

Stephen McManus is a great choice for overseeing this. He came right through the academy system, from the U/ages all the way to being captain of both Celtic and of Scotland also, so he literally knows every step of the way; what is expected, what is needed, what it takes. And along with Darren O'Dea (another graduate), its about identifying the talent when ready to step up to the next level. Whether that is an U/14 player put in the U/16 squad to push their development or a colt in the B team ready to make the ultimate step up. So it is possible by Ange's implementation of this structure that we will see the continued benefits of his tenure here for years to come.