Neil Lennon

Recurring in the sense that it's never happened before?

Lennon's 3rd season we progressed to the Champions League last 16, put in our most accomplished European performances of the last 12/13 years and won a League & Cup double.

Lennon's 4th season we qualified for the Champions League group stage, only suffered 1 league defeat all season, went 13 consecutive league games without conceding a single goal and won the league the earliest since 1928/29.

Not bad for 'not being a coach'.

 

This threads embarrassing.

 

In the 2012/13 season we finished with 79 points. Our lowest points total since 1999/2000. 7 draws and 7 defeats from 38 league games. Losing against St Mirren in the League Cup semi as well.

It has happened before. Think a number of people like to think we played fantastic football throughout Lenny's first spell. We didn't. We were great for chunks, we were duff for chunks.

Edit: Oh and in his 4th season, we qualified for the CL and proceeded to finished bottom with 3 points, getting pumped at home off a bang average Milan side. And domestically, yes we were fantastic in the league. But we got put out of the League Cup by Morton, at Celtic Park - in the third round. And Aberdeen beat us at Celtic Park in the fifth round of the Scottish Cup.

 

It isn’t easy to compare CL records between Lennon and Rodgers. Out of the 4 campaigns, Lennon had the easiest groups by far. Rodgers done better in EL and got us European football twice after Xmas.

Rodgers was nowhere near as bad in Europe as some folk like to make out.

 

I'll take 7 defeats and 7 draws every season if it means we see a Champions League last 16 appearance, and League & Cup double. If that's what you quanitfy as being 'stale, pish and predictable' then you're a hard man to please.

Cup defeats and poor performances in the league are always going to happen under any manager. The year after we won the European Cup we were put out in the first round of the European and Scottish Cup. MoN lost out to Inverness and Hibs in the Cup, Strachan to Clyde, Deila to Ross County.

It pains me to praise the rat but his domestic cup record was outrageous. To have us competing at that level for 2 and a half years without loss is unprecedented but it wasn't the barometer prior and shouldn't be now. We should recognise it for the outstanding run that it is but it will come to an end at some point.

That said the domestic cups are a black mark on Lennon's record there's no doubt about it. But it's a bit of stretch to call 2 seasons as 'stale, pish and predictable' on the basis of 3 poor cup performances.

 

You’re correct. The fact you can’t answer me says it all really.

 

I have seen plenty of this language aimed at Rodgers' last two seasons in this thread as some sort of rationale to defend Lennon. Very bizarre considering Rodgers domestic record is completely unblemished and he has given us two back to back last 32 runs in the EL. Lennon's cup record is an area of worry for me.

 

Answer what? every argument has been done to death, you either have faith that Lenny can do the job or you don't, we both sit on opposite sides of that fence and were both not for switching.

I could go on to say that Lenny has played a major part in us negotiating some difficult obstacles at the business end of the season and with another mans team and that that will play a major role in us getting the treble, but I'd be wasting my time.

Tell you what though, I believe Lenny will get the job on winning the final and that he will go on to take us to the ten, and that's when some folks will be really embarrassed about what they posted in this thread.

 

It's harsh but that is the reality, we hate the snake but in the end he gave Lenny 2 games to win a cup, and what, just over 10? To win the league, he's simply come in to finish the work Rodgers started.

If he gets it done and doesn't get the job then so be it, I mean I've no * clue who we could get in that would be at the level inbetween Lennon and Rodgers but sorry, if it turns out that it might be a Wagner or Benetiz(lite) then I want them in.

If it turns out that it's that the Baumgart fella closing in then I want Lennon all day long.

All this silly comparing between Lennon and Rodgers needs ending, they both served this club better than anyone could have imagined when they were hired to take the role. Lennon had arguably the better one off nights in Europe but was inconsistent in the domestic comps.

Rodgers was simply magic in the league, trouncing sevco on nearly ever occasion, won a double Treble and could be given credit for getting us most of the way to a Treble Treble, but he was perhaps less fortunate in Europe got some utterly horrendous groups but done well to get us to the last 32.

Our next manager has got some amount of pressure on their shoulders as next season is bigger then going for the 10 for me, after all this * about and how snake left, everyone is gagging for us to now fall apart and as long as our new guy gets the players back in order and tells board where to go (straight to bank and get a nice fat stack of cash) and we achieve 9iar, then 10iar is set in stone.

Call it arrogance or whatever but after all this, if we can still get to 9iar, with decent margin (10 points) then 10iar already ours.

 

It's not on the basis of 3 poor cup performances.

Again and again it essentially comes down to that single 2012/13 season and European campaign. It was fantastic, but it was a complete anomaly. Look, I'm not saying we should have had Last 16 football and a treble every season, but when you break each season down, I honesty don't find his first spell all that impressive - bar that 2012/13 season, which still had an underwhelming league performance in terms of consistency and style of football.

His first season - he did well do overhaul a pish squad and win the Scottish Cup, but we threw away the league with a few games left. No European football either. Again, perhaps deserves a bit of leeway there.

Second season - Won the league, no domestic cups and only reached the Europa League groups thanks to Sion being done by UEFA.

Third season - Fantastic European campaign. Won the league and Scottish Cup double. Way below par league performance wise and beaten by St Mirren in the LC. All in all, like you said, it was successful. But the football suffered massively in the league.

Fourth season - Great league campaign where we lost only once all season. Qualified for the CL. However we were underwhelming in the group stage, and never even reached the quarter final in both domestic cups.

 

That's a fairer appraisal. I'd agree with most of what you've said there but it contradicts your earlier point about being 'stale, pish and predictable' after 1 or 2 seasons.

On the whole I'd give Lennon a 7.5/10 for his first stint.

 

Aye, I’ll be embarrassed if he completes 10 in a row after saying he deserves the job if he wins the final, wraps the league up and beats the huns.

You’re one of those that thinks this is a black and white argument. There is no fence.

I asked you if you were giving him the credit for winning the treble if he beats Hearts. You’ve still danced round the question.

The answer is he wouldn’t have won the treble if he beats Hearts, he’d of won the Scottish cup. The League win will also be under his name, however the job was 90% done and should be 100% already but it’s not because we’ve dropped sloppy points.

Give him the credit he deserves, nothing more and nothing less. It’s cringeworthy either way.

 

The football in 2012/13 (league campaign at least) was exactly that. Hence the 14 draws/defeats. Fair enough it improved again the next season.

What I definitely don't recall, is the football being entertaining for the vast majority of his time here. Like I said earlier, it was good in spells, it was pish in spells.

7/7.5 is probably fair, aye.

 

Every single one of your posts are embarrassing.

 

I literally can't think of any Celtic managers in my lifetime (30) who haven't gone through spells of poor performances though.

The obvious ones like Deila, Mowbray and Barnes are givens but some of our play was torturous under Strachan, regularly relying on late goals to grind out wins. Ultimately on the whole though he was good for Celtic and won us 3 league titles and qualified for the last 16 twice but suffered some poor results like Clyde & Artmedia.

O'Neill for as much as he is lauded wasn't without fault. He never managed to qualify from the Champions League group stages or register an away victory with the abundance of riches that he had. Also the same criticism you're levying against Lennon in his first season in management losing the league from a commanding position isn't quite as bad as what happened at Fir Park under MoN with 2 minutes + injury time left.

The rat had us playing to a freakishly consistent level in the domestic cups but let's not rewrite history and pretend we were a machine that was pumping teams every single week. Prior to the 4-0 dismantling at Tynecastle we were beginning to show that we weren't infallible. Since that game our league form was incredibly patchy. Let's bear in mind we only finished 11 points clear of a Tribute Act side that was managed by the biggest joke figure in Scottish Football history and then a youth coach who was in place for 7 months and regularly getting *-slapped...and then Jimmy * Nicholl.

That's before we get into the start we made this season, truly woeful. Level on points at the turn of the year with an average hun team that was being managed by a complete rookie.

I'm sure we'd all love a manager who had us qualifying for the last 16 of the Champions League, not only winning Trebles but doing it in style year-after-year and not having any blips in domestic cups or Europe but that's not realistic. Success can be on a sliding scale, it doesn't have to be binary as many on this thread are making it. Either you're brilliant or you're * and there's no in-between.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. Myself and plenty others were getting a bit * off with certain aspects of Rodgers, i.e. the football being largely boring and predictable for a season/almost two seasons. Much like with Lenny, I think most of us will look back at Rodgers' time here as being incredibly successful in terms of domestic trophies, but the actual performances on the pitch were extremely hit and miss for a large spell of his time here. The difference I suppose is the flawless record domestically.

 

JS on Neil Lennon: "His style is completely different, he was a player here at the club and his experiences have brought something new. His impact has been positive."

 

Our domestic form dipped in Lennon's 3rd season mostly due to our exertions in Europe. Most of the points we dropped were before or after a game. Obviously not ideal but I'd accept dropping points in the odd league game if we still won it and seen an improvement in European performances.

In his 4th season we were a juggernaut in the league. Teams couldn't get near us. I can't accept that we had become stale and predictable. We were scudding teams regularly.

The 2 cup defeats were disappointing but he used the opportunity of a home cup tie against lower league opposition (Morton) to do what many on here suggest regularly and blood youngsters into the team. He gave starts to McGeouch, Biton & Rogic that evening. We huffed and puffed and got papped out, it happens. Against Aberdeen we were just out-fought on the day, another sub-par performance but they had grafters on the pitch that wanted it more. I remember Willo Flood being like a man possessed, kicking everything and desperate to get one over us. Robson, Hayes, Logan, Rooney on the park as well.

 

You know the games a bogey when you're having to convince people Brendan Rodgers is a better manager than Lenny.

 

Who's having to do that?