Neil Lennon

The PSG game at home was * embarrassing.

 

When you see MON v WGS v Lennys time as an example it's not fair to compare imo

Look at MON team compared to lennon compared to Strachans, managers have different budgets there's too many variables to compare fairly.

 

So considering all this are you completely glossing over the fact Rodgers also drew to st.mirren and Livingston. In those two particular fixtures Rodgers picked up 2 points and Lennon picked up 4. Lennon deserves every bit of support Rodgers got and potentially more.

And Lennon has said from the get go he doesn't want to change to much at this stage of the season.

 

Strachan spent more than O’Neill believe it or not. I also believe the snake was backed financially which is why our wage budget is a riot. It’s not about how much you have more of how you use it tbh.

 

Yeah fair point on how you use it but some players may have already been there and bought the manager prior to them, as I say there's to many variables in my view to fairly compare managers in different eras

 

Not true. In those two particular fixtures Rodgers also got 4 points.

 

Rodgers also picked up 4 points from those fixtures. He beat Livi at home and drew at St Mirren. Lenny drew with Livi at home and beat St Mirren away. So that's not true straight away.

And no, I'm not glossing over it at all. My point is that to say Lenny isn't picking the system is nonsense. He decided to go with that starting XI yesterday. He picked the players and the formation. It has nothing to do with Rodgers.

If he doesn't want to change too much then he isn't going about it the right way by picking a 361 formation and bringing on a player to put cross after cross into the box when it clearly doesn't suit us.

 

Why have you handpicked those results?

Here are the results of our home games against the second seeds in our Champions League group in Lennon's and Rodgers' respective second Champions League campaigns - a more honest comparison:

Celtic 0-3 Milan
Celtic 0-5 Paris Saint-Germain

I admit that we were more competitive in Europe at times under Lennon than we were under Rodgers: Lennon is more pragmatic than Rodgers.

I have no interest in defending Rodgers' European record - in terms of results, it's poor.

I would, however, note how Lennon's and Deila's and Rodgers' campaigns rank in terms of finish, just to dispel the notion that Lennon is some kind of seasoned European ace:

2012-13 (CL Round of 16)
2017-18 (EL Round of 32 via CL Group Stage)
2016-17 (CL Group Stage)
2013-14 (CL Group Stage)
2018-19 (EL Round of 32)
2014-15 (EL Round of 32)
2015-16 (EL Group Stage)
2010-11 (EL Play-off Round)
2011-12 (EL Play-off Round*)

Lennon
Deila
Rodgers

*knocked out by Sion

 

Or use the other result for perspective
Barcelona 2 Celtic 1


It's all statistics which does not take everything into account. As I have posted previously Lenny had to build a complete new team after inheriting a shambles. If you take into account RD and Snake could hit the ground running using players from the previous manager/managers for the entirety of their tenure. So the other 2 had the benefit of inheriting the bones and some of a squad with champions League experience.

I would love to see how the snake would have got on having to build an entire team on Lennys budget and wage constrictions. Would we have possibly suffered some record breaking CL defeats home and away.

Most pertinent of all you did not answer my question. This was essentially what the post was about and the results I highlighted were only to make the point how statistics can be misleading like you comparing the PSG result as oppose to the Barca result

 

I'm really undecided whether I want Lenny as the gaffer next year. If we can attract someone like Rodgers again then I would be all for that but history suggests that was an anomaly. If it's the usual suspects being lined up again then Neil Lennon 100%

I do worry about his health though, taking on the job again full time.

We should definitely open up a search though and Neil can be part of the process. He shouldn't just be given it, treble or no treble.

 

Well said.

 

You dismissed the disappointments of Lennon's final season by claiming that the board sold his best players from under him. (Believe it or not, other managers besides Lennon have to contend with a high player turnover.)

If that it true, Deila inherited a squad in decline.

I did.

 

We should definitely open up a search though and Neil can be part of the process. He shouldn't just be given it, treble or no treble.

That's fair enough. Personally I never wanted NL beyond this season - his record since leaving us has hardly been stellar. I think it was fortunate for Celtic and NL that he was free when BR left - there wasn't a queue of clubs vying for his services. However, his record since arriving has simply confirmed my opinion.

To be honest, if we hadn't had such a lead in the SPL when he arrived, I wouldn't have bet my mortgage on 8 in a row.

I have no problem with NL being considered and I'd rather have him than Keane or Moyes. However, if DD is prepared to pony up - I'm pretty certain than there will be a few candidates with a better track record than NL.

We may not be able to attract Pep or Klopp but we are a big enough club to attract a decent manager with a proven track record.

 

Love lenny but dont know if any manager will come to us without a board spending big on transfers the next two seasons. And our board are tory cnuts. Only threat to the ten is our board imo.HH

 

We are further ahead now than when he took over.

 

He inherited a squad that was being rebuilt but still was inferior to the one from 2012/13 evident in the fact he still used many of the players from he previous era as did the snake who because of his inability in the transfer market depended on players from both previous eras.

I am sure plenty of managers contend with higher player turnover but if you would care to list some of these managers and how they fared before and after the turnover of players and the money the spent and what they achieved before and after these turnovers they we can then make comparisons with Lenny.

As for the answer it was qualified. You use of the word "at times" nullifies that.

I admit that we were more competitive in Europe at times under Mowbray than we were under Rodgers


Edit:Lets bin the semantics. As fans we should both know the qualities of our team.

I believe Lennys 2012/13 were better than the team he had to start season 2013/14. In this belief I take into account VVD was freshly signed from Holland and was not up to speed with the team nor had he developed into the player he would become. The improvement in VVD and the signing of thumb in January put paid to the point we were a team in decline.

I believe that the team Ronnie inherited from Lenny was vastly superior in quality and attitude to the team Lenny inherited for Mowbray.

Is your opinion these beliefs are off the mark?

 

Sept 14th 2018 - st.mirren 0 Celtic 0
Nov 11th - Livingston 0 Celtic 0

It is indeed true ...

 

Was just about to post the same thing. Bizarre comment to make.

Undefeated since he took over, extended our lead in the league, progressed in the cup, only conceded twice in 7 games.

The performance levels haven't been good enough for the most part but you'd think he hadn't won a game the way some are acting. We've had several first team players injured and returning from injury.

The levels of petulance from some on here and in the wider support has been pretty embarrassing to be honest.

We're the first to demand loyalty from our players and managers eg. Boyata and the rat. Yet when a guy shows unfailing loyalty and takes over a job in difficult circumstances when he was under no obligation to, some react hysterically when we don't play well for a few games or drop a few points. Loyalty is not a one-way street.

 

I don't know why the emphasis in comparing Lennon to Rodgers. Both could be equally good enough, or not good enough.

These comparisons at statistical level are both irrelevant and impossible. They managed different teams, at different times, with different opponents and it would be solely useful to back up a claim if it showed one as massively better than the other, which I believe anyone honest at this point will agree it is not the case.

What makes me worried about Lennon is not the turgid, ugly football who depends on luck. Indeed the circumstances were difficult, the team wasn't exactly playing well before him, the mentality of several players seems to be rotten and the squad needs a shake up. It is that I struggle to understand what is he doing. The substitutions, the line ups, the post match analysis is only slightly better that the complete bullshit the fraudster would come up after every match. The last match had a very weird line up, he didn't rest Tierney as he said he would and anyone here will think it is reasonable, the substitutions were totally *. I am not writing out him as not good enough for us but I am not convinced either.

 

It's really hard to judge lenny on the games he has been at the helm so far ,he is almost restricted by being thrown in at the deep end after the amazing success of br tactics in spl games .
It's easy to see why it's very much same as before ,don't need to change anything approach ,effectively tying his hands , it's not been terrible but not amazing ,right in the middle tbh and I feel we won't see the bennifit of him as manager unless he is given the job permanently, he has come up with some very good signings first time round and speaks very well to media ,can set up teams to defend or attack ,proved for and against us he can giant kill , tried and tested against fresh ideas and manager , will also add I believe there is some anti lenny agenda coming through on here and media ,but it's also easy to infiltrate forums and spread confusion and bad feeling ,so I wouldn't take some reactions to results as gospel to how the fans are feeling regarding lenny being given the job next season .