Kate & Gerry McCann

I believe this may be what you're thinking of:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm


Final revised translation.

Judiciary Police
National Directorate


TRANSLATION

Surname: GASPAR
First Names: KATHERINA ZACHARIAS
Age: +18
Date of Birth:
Address:
Postal Code:
Profession:
Telephone no.:
Date of Statement: 16/05/2007
Number of Pages: 8

I make this statement in relation to the MCCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The MCCANN family is composed of Gerry MCCANN, his wife, Kate MCCANN and their three children, Madeleine, 4 years old, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins, aged two.

As has been widely covered by the news, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

I will begin by explaining that I am married to Savio Gaspar and that we have two daughters, E., who is almost 3 and I. who is now one year old. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. I am a General Practitioner like my husband. I met my husband when we were (page 1) working together in Exeter, about 14 years ago.

To explain the way in which we met the MCCANN family, I would like to state that my husband knows Kate, as they both attended Dundee University between 1987 and 1992. At that time, Kate?s name was Kate HEALY. I met Kate and Gerry on the occasion of their wedding, around 1998, in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding because as Savio was an old friend of Kate?s, we were both invited to the event.

As far as I know, Savio did not know Gerry before the abovementioned wedding. From that time onwards, we met as friends about three times a year and we would spent weekends away together. I would say that we became intimate friends of Gerry and Kate.

I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent a weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We would stay in contact with each other by telephone.

In 2002/2003 Savio and I were living in Birmingham and the MCCANNS in Leicester.

In September of 2005, Savio, I and E., who at the time was about 1 and a half years old, went to spend our holidays abroad, in Majorca. We went (page 2) on holiday with Kate, Gerry, and Madeleine, who would have been around 2 and a half years old and with the twins, Sean and Amelie, who were just months old. I remember that I was pregnant with I.

During those holidays there were also friends of Gerry and Kate with us.

There was a couple, whose names were Dave and Fiona, and whose surname was PAYNE, I believe. I think that they were married and had one daughter aged about 1, named L. I remember that during those holidays that Fiona was pregnant.

There was another couple, whose names were Tara and Stuart, but whose surname I cannot remember who were also on holiday with us. They had two boys, aged 1 and 3, whose names I do not remember. I did not know these two families before we went on holidays together. From memory, I think that it was Dave who organised these holidays and we all stayed together in a big house when we were in Majorca.

We spend a week on holidays, however, the MCCANN family and the PAYNE family stayed for two weeks. I think that Tara and Stuart, and their two children, also stayed for just one week.

Two or three days had gone by, we were all staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun (Page 3) with our children. Possibly, around the fourth or perhaps the fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought numerous times about the incident that I am about to describe since that date.

One night, when we were on holiday, the adults, in other words, the couples that I mentioned were on a patio outside the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was sitting between Dave and Gerry whom I believe were both talking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like ?she?, referring to Madeleine, ?would do this?.

When he mentioned ?this?, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner there being an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) to see ?did anyone else hear this, or was it just me?. There was a nervous silence noted in the conversations of all the others and immediately afterwards everyone began talking again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was something very strange and that it wasn't something that should be done or said.

Apart from this, I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to mention again that it was during a conversation, in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say precisely what it was about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, L., though I'm not certain. He slid one of his fingers in and out of his mouth, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that L., would behave or would do it.

I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.

I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he made the gestures I referred to, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, even though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave saying and doing this a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different way from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he might be interested in child * on the internet.

During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.

During our holidays in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to took care to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, my daughter E. I was very clear about this, as having heard him say that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E. alone.

When I heard Dave say that a second time, it reinforced what I already thought in relation to his thoughts about girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife, Fiona, accompanied by their daughter L., took Madeleine (page 6) with them to spend the day, in order to give Kate and Gerry a bit of rest and time to be with the twins. When I say this, it is not that I was worried about Madeleine's safety, since she was also with Fiona and L., and also with Dave, as far as I know.

As I have already mentioned, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after Majorca, and I have not spoken to them since then. In the last two years, we have met, as a family, with the MCCANN, every now and then. This mainly happens on the children's birthdays, a time when we meet up.

The first time I heard of the terrible news about Madeleine's disappearance through the radio, my thoughts went immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal but he did not know.

I watched the TV thoroughly, and seeing the news coverage, I noticed that Dave was there, because I saw him, in the background, on the television images during the first days after Madeleine?s disappearance. Based upon that, I believed that he was on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal.

Today, Wednesday, 16th of May of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC Brewer an A4 page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to refer to these images as (Ref KZG/1) (element of proof) that may (page seven) be presented as means of proof, if necessary. These photographs were taken during the holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white T-shirt and the woman in the photograph corresponds to his wife Fiona. The man who is holding the glass of wine in the photograph is Stuart. These photographs were taken while we were in Majorca.

Signed:

Translation [PJ] done by C.R.F.E.

 

Aye, just from googling there it says she was last seen by people at 4.30pm eating although some say they were seen going into their apartment at 6pm and then they went to that place at 8pm when she was left alone. So that means if they done it then the body must be buried within a 1 hour distance of where they were unless other people know and helped them which i'd doubt as what sort of psychos could you really know that you could get in touch with in short notice to hide a body never mind your own wean. With that little time to "disappear" the body i'd imagine they'd have * up somewhere or the car would have been seen.

They are creepy and I don't trust them but I doubt they could really have got away with it alone.

But I would also doubt someone would just break into somewhere and abduct a wean unless someone broke in then killed her there by mistake out of panic but even then they'd probably have just left her there and ran.

Something dodgy has went on, could be that if their pal was a paedo he could have informed people they know of their routine and they knew to break in when they were out.

Not speaking to the police I dont find that suspicious though, im sure all lawyers tell you to never answer anything unde any circumstances so you'd do what your told.

 

I honestly get no pleasure whatsoever out of discussing any cases of missing children, but automatically I think back to Shannon Matthews - 3 weeks she was "missing" for, found 1 mile away ALIVE inside a divan bed.

No offence to anyone, but her mother (and the uncle/boyfriend involved) were morons with learning difficulties. They managed to dupe everyone (AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY/COUNTRY) for weeks.

More than conceivable that a highly educated couple with medical degrees - especially the mother who had a background in working with cadavers - would have more than enough knowledge to pull something like this off - especially when you take into consideration the amount of "political muscle" they had behind them.

Of course that is only a theory, but since there is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that a MAN or a PEADOPHILE/GANG took the child, then I suppose all theories regarding the child's disappearance cannot be automatically shut down.

 

Ceeepy as *. Remember reading that before.

 

Jesus wept man, that's * disgusting.

Sadly wouldn't surprise me if that was true and connected to her disappearance

 

Plenty of evidence pointing to the parents, yet every piece of evidence pointing to an abduction has been dismissed by the police investigating it. Massive cover-up.

If it had been left solely in the hands of the Portuguese authorities, I believe there would have been a prosecution.

 

Interesting appearance from Mr. Payne was brought up at a later date in another witness statement given by a social worker/child protection worker, Yvonne Martin:

Processos Volume XIII Pages 3425 - 3428

Witness Statement

Date: 2007.06.13

Time: 12H00

Name: YVONE WARREN MARTIN


Profession: Social Services and Child Protection

The witness is accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese.


She says that she has lived in Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal and

for the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works.

During the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the witness was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at about 07H00 she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on May 03, 2007.

As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple, she arrived there at about 09H30.

She clarifies that she did not leave immediately for Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home but left at around 09H00.

At first, she could not locate the exact site where the family was staying on holiday. Upon seeing a police patrol car which passed close by her, she asked the police if they could show her the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared and where the parents were staying.

At the scene, she found a group of three people, two males and one female.

She went over to the group and identified herself.
Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple.

The couple was visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely.

The third person never identified himself, upon the witness's insistence the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family.

She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.

Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them every hour.

As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied yes.

She clarifies that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and "get" his child.

After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had been taken by a couple.

At this moment, the witness notices that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials issued by the British government to calm them down.

Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.

At this moment, the witness wishes to clarify that, in England, anyone who works with children, whether a doctor, police officer or social worker, has to have a proper credential certified by the police and that this was one of the documents she showed to the McCanns.

Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.


The witness then asked whether anyone from the Medical Centre had been with Kate as she was very agitated and needed some support, she was told they hadn't.

At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10 in the morning.

Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The witness alerted the couple to the type of statements they should give and that it would be better for them to keep silent.

At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time.

After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else.

The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal.

As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks
that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.

She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt
.
When asked whether that it would be possible to identify him from a photograph, the witness replied yes.

She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied no but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.

No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.


Processos Vol XIII Page 3429

Photographic Recognition File


On 13th June, 2007 at the Portimao DIC, Yvone Warren Martin appeared before me, José Monteiro, Inspector, in order to proceed with photographic recognition.

When asked, she described the suspect and she was shown photographs of various individuals who made up the McCann couple holiday group.

Upon visualising the photographs, she recognised David Anthony Payne, an individual who appeared in several photographs, as being the person she referred to in her statements and who she supposedly had known on another occasion.

The present document was drawn up and after being translated by the interpreter, will be signed.

Three signatures



Processos Vol XIII Pages 3430 - 3433 or pages 141-143

YVONNE WARREN MARTIN

Places Worked:
1. Gateshead, Tyne & Wear
2. Southshields, Tyne & Wear
3. Newcastle, Tyne & Wear
4. York, North Yorkshire
5. Hull, Kingston Upon Hull
6. North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear
7. Plymouth, Devon


Witness Statement

Date: 2007/11/14
Time: 10H30
Place: DIC Portimao

Name: YVONNE WARREN MARTIN


Profession: Social Services and Child Protection

She comes to the process as a witness and as she does not speak Portuguese she is accompanied by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceição Silva who will translate all questions and answers into English.

The witness has given a previous statement to this police force regarding the facts in question. This took place on 13-06-2007 and led to the inquiry of the statement that was taken. The witness confirms the complete integrity of that statement, everything was fully reproduced for this file. The witness was also shown attached page showing the places of work where she carried out her professional activities as Social Services Manager for Child Protection, having also confirmed that these were the cities where she carried out her professional activities.

She states that in the course of her contact with Madeleine's parents, described in detail in her previous statements, Kate told her that the child had been taken by a couple. During the meeting they had, the details of which are contained in her previous statement, she did not have the opportunity to ask in depth about this question nor about any other.

With regards to the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met them, and who was later identified as David Payne, she reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual intervened in a situation related to a professional activity of the witness. She clarifies that neither on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, can she remember concretely the place or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne, but that she continues to think that the same individual is familiar to her but cannot state the particular situation.

She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember

She says that about two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, when the police made an appeal for information about a man, carrying a child, who had been seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, telling them the following: : regarding the various details she observed during her contact with the McCanns it is her opinion that they could be in some way involved in the disappearance of Madeleine.

She first found them aggressive and their reaction after she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, also seemed strange to her. Afterwards she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.


She did this anonymously because she did not want to be bothered by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, was wearing a dark polo shirt, blue or black coloured, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type without a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing matches perfectly with the clothing the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the witness think that the parents and their friends could possibly be involved in the disappearance of the child.

She declares that one of her main aims when she wrote the anonymous letter was for the British police to check the paedophile or child abusers registers and whether David Payne was on that list.

No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

 

There is ZERO evidence (other than a couple of witness statements from the McCann's, and aa few members of the "Tapas 9") to suggest that the child was abducted.

In fact, the very first shouts from Kate McCann - who supposedly discovered Madeleine was missing was "THEY'VE TAKEN HER" - something I find bizarrer, yet can understand at the same time.

Although, the comments coming from Kate in the subsequent hours and days afterwards was always that someone had abducted her, and that "He" (being the "abducter") was the perpetrator - despite all claims from them about the apartment being broken into etc being totally rebuked by hotel staff/management.

Surely your first thought/cry would be "where's my daughter" or "she's gone" (things to that effect), one would think...

 

A key question indeed.

I can't remember the guy's name off by hand, or what time it was claimed (I'll have a look and see) - but one of the fellow diners/friends (dubbed the Tapas 9) claimed he checked in on the room - to paint you a picture, you walk in the bedroom door, madeleine's bed directly to your left when you walk in, the twins in travel cots in the centre of the room.

He claims he saw the twins asleep and breathing, but can't remember seeing Madeleine.

 

@The Prof

9:30 Matthew Oldfield claims to have checked in on the children:

According to the McCanns, at 9.30pm Matthew Oldfield supposedly offers to check on Madeleine and the twins. However, there is something wrong about this account. Matthew Oldfield states that he did not see Madeleine. What good is a check to see if everything is alright which fails to check on Madeleine? He would be failing in his duty towards the McCanns if the scenario was genuine. Why didn’t he see Madeleine? Obviously, she wasn’t asleep in her bed. There are two factors here. One is that Matthew Oldfield was not prepared to state he saw Madeleine. It would mean he was the last person to see Madeleine alive, and make him a prime suspect when the police arrived, and mean he would be accused of perverting the course of justice if discovered to be lying. The second factor is that if he claimed he saw Madeleine, then it would cast doubt upon Jane Tanner’s alleged sighting of the abductor at 9.15pm.

 

Imagine people being wrongfully accused of murders etc on barely any evidence... yet this pair are untouchable.

 

So she saw and heard this * behaving in that way but still let her daughter have a bath with him around?
I would have left straight away with my kids but possibly not before flooring the *.

 

Same. In fact, i think i would have questioned them straight away. She was sat inbetween then while they had this conversation. Strange thing to keep quiet about especially when there were kids in their company.

 

.

1. Can ANYONE please explain why an 'innocent' person - accused of so vile a crime - would NOT (voluntarily) submit to a polygraph test ?

2. Can ANYONE please explain why an 'guilty' person - accused of so vile a crime - WOULD submit to a polygraph test ?

Clue # 1. O.J. Simpson, Jeffrey MacDonald, Jeffrey Dahmer, ALL refused to submit to polygraph tests.

Clue # 2. Defendents who DO volountarily submit to Polygraph testing (and pass those tests) are almost 98.6% more likely to be acquitted if the case goes to court. (Calif. Bar Assoc 2008)

Clue # 3. If your child was 'missing', and you had no part in - or knowledge of - the disappearance, would you not want the police to concentrate ALL their efforts on attempting to find your child, rather than wasting time investigating YOU, simply because you would not submit to a polygraph test ?

Clue # 4. THE MOST IMPORTANT clue. What would YOU do if you were falsely accused of such a crime ?

It's a no brainer.

 

.

The vast majority of proven errors in polygraph results are where people were judged NOT to have been 'deceptive', but were subsequently proved to have been lying.

If a person is judged by a polygraph tester to have been 'deceptive', that person is able to demand as many subsequent tests as he/she wishes - conducted by different polygraph operators.

It is interesting to note that the results of polygraph tests are NOT acceptable in court - and cannot even be INTRODUCED by the prosecution - but that defence lawyers ALWAYS attempt to introduce the fact, if their clients have 'passed' such a 'test', performed by their own 'experts' !

 

Maddy never

.

Maddy never left Portugal.

 

W

.

WHY won't they take a polygraph test ?

Wouldn't YOU, in those circumstances ........ IF you had no 'guilty' knowledge ?

 

I never said she did!

At the time of what happened all that was reported was that she was probably abducted, and a possibility she was taken outside of the country! So from all that I had read and seen, at he time of it, it made me think could it have been, at that time!

 

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Why were Jimmy Saville, Ted Heath and all the other child abusers not prosecuted during their lifetimes ? .... There is something very sick in our society. (Money talks.)