Scotland v Ireland Discussion Thread 14th Nov @ Celtic Park

In legal and footballing terms, if he is born in Scotland to Scotland born parents then he is Scottish. However, thankfully, international football accounts for the fact that national identity is not that simple and allows players to represent a country that at least 1 grandparent was born in.

My argument is that just because he was born in Scotland to Scotland born parents, that does not mean he is Scottish and that's that. there's more to national identity than that. I'm sure Aiden would consider himself Scottish as well as Irish. However, he clearly values his Irish roots over just being brought up and born in Scotland or he would have represented Scotland. He doesn't deserve any criticism whatsoever over his decision.

Scotland fans may feel aggrieved that they have missed out on a right good player, but they missed out on him because he wanted to represent Ireland over Scotland due to feeling more Irish.

We're going around in circles here, I can't really say much more than that.

 

Rubbish. When you are wearing your international hat then its natural for some people to be annoyed that he isnt playing for his own/his parents country. The country he has chosen to play for is irrelevant and it being Ireland is no different if he had played for England or someone else. you WOULD feel the same if an Irish born and bred player of Irish parentage played for England using the granny rule. I am proud of Celtic's heritage but I dont like the way some people make it that anything that touches on Ireland has to be hypersensitive, treated like kid gloves and thought of as bigotry.

 

This.

Me and one of my mates have been winding each other up all week about this game. During the first half he txt me and said ' * all this booing the Soldiers song and the Fields' and changed sides. I'm sure he'll go back to following Scotland but he couldn't join in with that last night.

 

Why then would you not boo John O'Shea?

 

Pish.

No I wouldn't.

Folks inability to allow individuals to make their own choices on here is frightening.

 

That's the long and short of it really. If he was to choose to play for England over Ireland, he is clearly not an Irishman. If there was a definition for being the opposite of Irish that would be it :smiley-laughing002:

 

Didn't like the fact that McGeady decided to play for Ireland but fair play to him for making that choice.
If it was me in that situation and Ireland came calling i would ask them to wait a few weeks to let me think about it. Then i would say Yes.
Even though i was born in Scotland, i would qualify as having Irish father and Irish Grandparents.
As far as i am aware i could also play for England as my Gran was born in what was then a part of the UK. Never would pick them though.

 

The bloodline thing is a dangerous concept IMO and since the Nazis most western European countries believe in civic nationality i.e. everyone regardless of racial or ethnic origin who is brought up in Scotland and likely has a Scottish accent is Scottish To define Scottishness by bloodlines is the sort of thing that once allowed bigot to exclude tims and make out as though they just got off the boat etc. Things have moved on. Even in the indy referendum debates, other than the Saltires, there was virtually no reference to history, ethnic nationalism etc. We are better than that and have moved on. Everyone born or largely brought up in Scotland is Scottish because they grew up in Scotland. The use of the granny rule to me is a dangerous old fashioned and kind of American way of looking at people's identity through blood lines. Leave that sort of thing to the Nazis and Zionists.

 

Pathetic

 

Someone die at this ? Been in bed all day.

 

Yeah. Young 22 year old fell down 3 flights of stairs just after final whistle.
Died in hospital from the injuries.

This from the rager.

NATHAN McSeveney, 22, was rushed to Glasgow Royal Infirmary after he fell three floors down a concrete stairwell just moments after the final whistle but died later.







Nathan McSeveney died in Glasgow Royal Infirmary A SCOTLAND fan died last night after falling from stairs in the top tier of Celtic Park.
It’s understood Nathan McSeveney plunged three floors down a concrete stairwell at Exit 33 about 9.45pm.
The horror unfolded just after the final whistle in the Euro 2016 qualifier between Scotland and Ireland, which Scotland won 1-0.
The 22-year-old, from Cumnock, was rushed to Glasgow Royal Infirmary but died later.
SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan paid tribute this morning. He tweeted: "One of our young fans died last night after falling through a stairwell coming out of Celtic Park. I'm so sorry for his family. Tragic news."
Tributes flooded social media this morning as news of the tragedy spread.
There were 60,000 people packed into Parkhead for last night's match.
Police said there are no suspicious circumstances and a report will be prepared for the procurator fiscal.
Inquiries were continuing today and the victim's family have been informed. The Health and Safety Executive have also been made aware.
A statement posted on the Celtic club website this morning said: "Everyone at Celtic Football Club is deeply saddened to learn of the death of a young supporter following last night's match between Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.
"This was a terrible, tragic incident and our sincere thoughts and prayers are with the young man's family at this time."




Condolences to his family and friends.
RIP Nathan.

 

Its just incredibly stupid to be booing McGeady for being a wee traitor one week and then going to Celtic Park wearing green and white and singing Let the people sing the next.

 

Don't see what's wrong about booing him in all honesty. In all honesty its pantomime stuff and I don't think McGeady would be in the least bit bothered - and I would fully have expected to rub it right in if he had scored last night, and rightly so too.

People look into it in too much detail. I was at the game when Larsson came back to Celtic in Barcelona colours and believe it or not I heard a few boos then and a chant of 'bobo's gonna get ya' through the stadium. Again, it's pantomime stuff.

Vicious abuse is different but I've no problem admitting that I've booed folk at sporting events who I've liked if I've wanted the other guy/team to win - I've even celebrated them getting KO'd!

 

I do think though that when guys are very young they have ideas and are a bit hot headed. I personally think a decision to not play for your country is such a big one taking you from a potential hero to a pariah that it should not be possible to invoke the granny rule until a players is 21. I think I probably could have been persuaded to play for Ireland when I was 15 and daft but I wouldnt dream of it now. I would much rather be a hero in my own country who would never need to buy a drink again. I have a lot more respect for Ray Houghton for instance who I remember in the press saying he wanted to play for Scotland and would give it another year or so before going to play for Ireland - he played at a time when we had a superabundance of brilliant strikers. He had my blessing when he went and I think he waited till he was 22 or something.

 

This

 

International football is totally different. All international supporters find themselves cheering a player from a bitter club rival team who is in their own national team and booing one of their own club's players when they are on another international side against their's. If you dont understand that then you dont get international football. Its all about country and club rivalries and club favourites dont mean a thing.

 

Bolded part. That's the reason i said i would wait a few weeks to decide. I would have let Scotland camp know the situation and if they said No or hadn't contacted me by that deadline i would have picked Ireland.
Once that decision is made, though, i would give my all for them even against Scotland as they would have done me the honour of picking me.

 

We're not talking about the differences between club and international football. We're talking about booing a player who chose to play for Ireland because of his family roots, and then proceeding to sing LTPS at the next Celtic game.

 

So you believe in racial bloodline concept of nationality and not a civic inclusive nationality based on actually being a member of the society of that country. Thank you Adolf