Virgil van Dijk

This sums it up for me.

 

No *. But they can say how much they really want them which of course has an effect on how far a given club is willing to go to land their man.

 

Normally silly season on here in the summer, but this is a very interesting discussion, guys.

 

Doubt that. Especially for someone like Advocaat who I think has had DOF roles before.

If Ronny has a kitty of £5mil and the board say 'We can get x striker for £4mil' he can say no, if he wants more than £1mil to spend on other players.

You saying Wenger isn't involved in transfer talks at Arsenal? Or Fergie wasn't at Man Utd?

 

I'm not trying to be pedantic, i'm simply trying to illustrate that a players value to his own club by way of intangible factors is, in most cases, entirely separate from his value in the actual transfer market.

We can all say that Van Dijk has been immense for us and that we shouldn't sell him for a penny less than £12 million, but that's because he's one of our more valuable commodities, isn't it? His value to us is higher than it may be to a club like, say, Sunderland.

Sadly, the real life value of a player if he's looking to move on is entirely based on what other clubs are willing to pay for him. If a club are willing to pay £12 million, then he's a £12 million player in todays market.

If not, then he isn't. Simple as that really.

 

I think we're getting mixed up between the cost of signing them and value for money. I'm talking about value, you're talking about price.

I used the Andy Carroll transfer to Liverpool as my case in point, I'm sure you know what I'm getting at when most people say he is not worth £36m. Liverpool letting him go for far less backs that up. Most people at the time said that was far too much money for a player of his calibre, he may technically have been worth £36m because Liverpool paid it, however would you say that deal was value for money?

 

Surely if a player's value to us is higher than his market value, we keep him. Almost certainly not the case with Virgil given inflated EPL fees, but in principle.

 

Agreed. Leigh Griffiths market value is around £1m quid if paper stories are to be believed, his value to us is far higher, higher than any money we could potentially get for him.

 

In an ideal world we would, but it's well known in this day & age that if a player wants a move, he generally gets it.

As far as Andy Carroll goes it was the market at the time which dictated how much he was worth.

I mentioned in some other posts in this thread that there are certain factors that will come into play any time a player is moved on for a transfer fee, and this one was no different;

First of all, it was January. The January window is a factor all on its own. Teams making moves in January usually fall into two categories. They've either lost an important player through injury or transfer, or they're not performing as they should be. If a side comes calling for a player in January you can usually add an extra 10-15% minimum to the fee you would normally ask in the summer.

His current record for the selling team. Carroll finished the 2010/11 season as Newcastle's 2nd top scorer, one goal behind Kevin Nolan, which is pretty noteworthy considering he left in January. He had played in 18 games for Newcastle, returning a record of 11 in 18 in the EPL, which isn't too shabby.

He was an England international. Not worth much outwith the bubble of the EPL, granted, but when a striker makes his England debut at 21 years old and has scored 11 goals in 18 league games for a fairly ordinary Newcastle side you know there's going to be a bit of fanfare.

The position of the buying side. Liverpool were a shambles. They'd just sacked Roy Hodgson, appointed Kenny as manager and had lost arguably their biggest name in Torres to an EPL rival. They needed a name, they needed someone who was relevant, and they needed someone to get the fans back onside. Carroll was their man.

The player didn't want to leave. An important factor that many people never seem to remember when talking about this transfer. He didn't want to leave. The club weren't under pressure to sell.

At the time it was the going rate for Carroll when you take into account the circumstances I mention above.

As I also said, the market value for a player can change on an almost weekly or even daily basis during the transfer window. Carroll's has undoubtedly changed now, but how much do you think an EPL club would have to pay for someone like Harry Kane if they make a move in a January window? Especially if he's scoring freely as Carroll was that season and the buying side were under the same pressure as Liverpool?

He doesn't want to leave though, which makes a world of difference.

 

Stokes is the one I always think of in that regard but Griffiths is a good example too.

 

Netherlands 3-4 USA the day

Van Dijk still not in the squad, he should be in the team Hiddink ya wee fat specky ugly *!

 

Not always. Virgil failed to force a move last year. I think the power dynamics depend on things like how long is left on the contract, etc.

 

Yes, but in all honesty, i think if we had qualified for the CL and everything was going smoothly then Virgil would have been off. The reason Lawwell held onto him is because at that time he was the only player with any quality worth watching. Obviously now it has changed but if he was sold back then, then i think the fans would have been going nuts with the board.

 

All important factors, I agree. Still, there is no doubt Virgil wanted off and that he did not get his wish. It's more complicated than the idea that players can usually force moves. It really depends.

 

How have they been doing since the World Cup? Ridiculous that with such a lack of quality centre backs just now VVD isn't in the squad.

 

I can't see him being here by the end of the transfer window unfortunatly, as long as we get what he is worth, £10million+ with a sell on clause and keep him for the qualifiers as Ronny said we would then we can have no complaints.

I'd love to keep him of course but I hope he doesn't go to Sunderland, hopefully Southampton follow through with their early interest if it has to happen, Koeman would be a perfect mentor for him.

 

I think he'll stay for this season, especially now we have Boyata to tell him tales of EPL bench warming sadness .

Grass isn't always greener Virgil, ask Gary Hooper.

Back 3 of Virgil, Boyata & Gordon could be quality for us.

 

I would be surprised if we got 10+ for him.

I think around 8/9 is more realistic.

 

I think he will remain here until after the 3 qualifying rounds and if we make the groups I think he will stay until January but no longer than that which is fair I suppose. Would love 10mil for him regardless of who buys him.

 

I don't know, if we're talking EPL clubs then £10m+ is definitely realistic, they've more money than sense and PL is a very savvy negotiator.