Virgil van Dijk

Who was it then that took a large junk of his own money and paid the bank to get control of the club....?

There may be others helping set it all up, but i dont recall anyone else putting up the money needed.

 

Bingo. Great post

 

I don't think we are obsessed by selling players at all. Instead, I think its the fact that we accept a majority of our signings do not want to spend their career in Scottish football. They are looking to perform and make a step to a better league. With that in mind, these players WILL move on, and its about making sure we get value for them.

I don't want us to be a selling team, I really don't. but in this league, our hands are tied. The fact that teams in lower Championship positions can offer more than we can is indicative of the financial situation we are in. So the model of buying players with resell value is a sound one and is the most logical thing we can be doing under the circumstances. That's not being obsessed with selling players, that's making sure we make the best of the situation.

 

It was a director who left the club in the last few years who actually put up the 1m to save the club. His name escapes me. Fergus played a big part as did celts for change and the fans who paid for the whole party with the share issue. I am not downplaying what Fergus did but he was not a lone wolf in this saga, far from it.

 

But do we really see epl teams giving us 20,25 million for a player.

If we increase our player spending are we not in danger of making very little money when they move on to the epl.
Only because for some reason a brilliant player in the splfl is not brilliant untill he is sold by a epl team.

If all our big players go to the epl market and they have a buying cap because its Scotland then we must also have a buying cap so we can still make enough money to make it worth while bothering.

 

To answer the earlier question John Keane was the fella who put up 1m of his own cash to save the club

 

You are the one who claimed in our "near 130 year history" so I pointed that out, along with another poster. I was not trying to draw any comparison either "dear" :smiley-laughing002:. Just pointing out the futility of "spending every penny" as this is the mantra you spout and have done in this thread.

Maybe you would like to state your view on how, once all the transfer/profit is paid/spent, the player will be paid for/with ? Or does that fall under "normal" outgoings that are covered under our income ? Would that be it ? Think carefully now. :icon_mrgreen:

 

You need to get a hobby pet and pay less attention to what I am saying but I will answer your question.

I will also add a disclaimer because people are constantly misrepresenting me and painting the picture that I want reckless spending:
I 100% think we should not be spending more than we take in.

Now to your question if we sell a player like Wanyama then I am not totally for spending all of this money on transfer fees. I am however in favour of spending this money on the first team. This could be in the form of offering long term deals to proven players or signing additional players. This is not happening pet and some posters are actually advocating that we should not do this. The business is to fund the team not the other way around. We are contracting instead of expanding. If we budget for it then offering players decent contracts will not harm us. If it is the right player then it will actually be good for us. The better our first team is the more money we will earn anyway. Perhaps it is a lack of balls that holds us back but if you are satisfied being half a step ahead of the next team in Scotland then good luck to you. My ambition is to qualify for the CL groups for the next 10 seasons straight. Believe me this is what is best for our club.

 

That's what I'm saying about building reputation. When we do that the offers will come regardless, we need to gain Champions League football and have our former players do well down there. That's the key, that's how Porto and the likes have done it

I'm not talking massive amounts of money, I'm talking if we sell someone for £12m there's no reason not to buy a very promising youngster at £6m. Would that bankrupt us? Not a chance.

We boast enough about our scouting network, we boast enough about being a massive club. It's time to start doing things properly then. We need to get the club back to where it belongs and that's in the Champions League. This is the two main things for me if we are to continue with our current business model.

Otherwise we will mire in mediocrity.

 

I agree with the consensus that buying bigger, and selling on for a double is still a big profit, so why not. I just can't see us ever paying 6 mill for a player, ever again..

Ideally we want to be finding these gems before having to pay 6 mill to clubs who have spotted them earlier, as hard as that is. As already pointed out, that's why we have a scouting network that's got a decent reputation..

We are doing the right thing really, we are buying cheap and selling on to the rich boys next door (England), same as Porto to Spain and the likes. It's just countries like that have the advantage of better players coming through there own countries and access to the Brazilian market. Same with the African market and Belgium, France, Holland..
We're doing it on as big a scale as we probably can right now, despite having handicap's the other's don't..

 

Ronny got backing in Jan with the capture of GMS(who we'd already signed) and Armstrong both enhance our squad. Commons was also given the contract that he deserved.

Now our very successful transitional season has been completed let's give Ronny and PL a chance to strengthen the squad with players that are a sensible fit for us.

We all know what's at stake with CL qualification.

Part of the draw of our club us that if you perform well you will get a move to the EPL, that's how we attract the likes of Virgil. It's grim but that's the reality.
The other draw is European competition so investment is required every transfer window.

This window is important let's not be too negative before its even open or before Virgil is even sold.

 

You attempting to talk down to someone is an education, I will give you that.

I pay attention "pet" as because occasionally the utter * you claim deserves to be highlighted, as if it is not highlighted some people may well take your "expertise" as fact and that would indeed be scary.

As for misrepresenting you, no you have posted "spend the profit and transfer fee's" received, which would leave * all in the cupboard for a rainy day ( I have purposefully used a very simplistic term here so that you can keep up hopefully). So spending 100% of what we take in, is frankly stupid and only an utter moron/cretin would encourage that.

Aye because we don't already look to extend players deals do we , hmm Commons springs to mind. If only we could just extend VVD contract (for example) however sadly that would entail VVD accepting and agreeing too sign the contract.
Aye I would be interested to hear what your idea of a "decent contract" is, given the amount you wanted to * on JG.

The day you know what is "best for our club" financially, will be the day we will likely cease to exist. Thankfully no one will be allowing you to run our club, I just hope someone runs your household bills, as if you are doing it, its likely to end badly :smiley-laughing002: Spend everything.

 

The only problem with promising young players valued at £6 million are they will have richer clubs watching them offering them better options than us and the wages that £6 million players can command, will likely blow our wage structure to *.
Yes we could then use transfers fee's more, to subsidise wages, but that can easily fall apart should we not sell for a year or two while having to continue paying the wages.
In your example above, the full £12 million raised could very easily be needed to pay the transfer fee and the 6 million left covers wages of approx. 29k a week over 4 years (a 6 million pound player likely commands higher wages) so the full amount is gone on one player, if that player fails to make the grade/career ended ...

 

People are basically advocating gambling. If a real corporation or bank does it then they're horrible * when it goes down and causes a crisis, but somehow we as a football club are supposed to be so amazing that we can be right every time on a bet? It's insanity. It just doesn't work like that and there are countless clubs in Europe who serve as examples.

 

Unarguable logic.

 

That is true but think about it every deal we do these days is also a gamble as we well know. Perhaps if we put more money on a shorter price we will increase our chances of a decent payout. Or we could continue as we are meaning the chances of growth a minimal at best.

So tim time whats the story then. Are you advocating that we stockpile a heap of cash reserve? I thought this was a good idea at one time before believe it or not. And then i thought about it. One failure to qualify would have us going mental. Imagine having 10m in the bank and failing to qualify because we lacked the firepower necessary to see us through. Howl on a minute didnt that happen to us in the summer. O aye so it did.

 

So basically always be cautious? If you're going to gamble do it on players like Teemu Pukki and Amido Balde instead of doing it at a higher price, for potentially bigger rewards?

Small time gambling, with the same net outlay rather than going for a bit of quality at the same outlay?

 

So basically always be cautious? If you're going to gamble do it on players like Teemu Pukki and Amido Balde instead of doing it at a higher price, for potentially bigger rewards?

Small time gambling, with the same net outlay rather than going for a bit of quality at the same outlay?

2 players at £2m-£2.5m instead of a well scouted £4.5m player?

 

Every transfer is a gamble , some work others don't. VVD , Wanyama and Johansen were a similar price to the two you've mentioned.

Some we win some we lose , if we were to lose at twice the price it wouldn't be long before debt started pilling up.

 

I know mate, I'm not saying we shouldn't go for players at that price but it's pretty widely publicised they were nowhere near top of the list for players Lenny wanted.

Bitton, Van Dijk and Wanyama were. That's where the scouting comes into it.

Basically this issue is if you trust our scouting network or not. I do and so does Pedro apparently.