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Mancini sacked

Discussion in 'World Football' started by Jungo, May 13, 2013.

Discuss Mancini sacked in the World Football area at TalkCeltic.net.

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  1. TimFloyd Gold Member

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    No
     
    TimFloyd, May 14, 2013
    #101

  2. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    He's won an Intertoto Cup in Europe and has won trophies for teams that are expected to win things in South America. He's also been the manager of a team that spent £200 million on 4 of the best players in the world and won nothing.

    I'm not disregarding Pellegrini, in fact I thought his Villarreal team were awesome to watch, but (for me personally) Moyes is the better appointment for a top job in England. He is absolutely primed for success after 11 years of consistency and stability at a club with no money and no right to be in the top 6 year after year.
     
    PaulM1888, May 14, 2013
    #102

  3. Liam Scales

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    Do you think that in world football terms, David Moyes has shown himself to be a better manager than Manuel Pellegrini?
     
    Liam Scales, May 14, 2013
    #103

  4. liammcdowell

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    I think both could do well, but if I supported a team with money to spend I know which one I'd want.

    Pellegrini has done enough to be offered a big job anywhere in the world, moyes wouldn't get a big club outside England, and daft as it sounds man united are the only big club he had a chance of getting.
     
    liammcdowell, May 14, 2013
    #104

  5. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    I would say (and have said) it's impossible to quantify. However for me, at this time, Moyes is by far the better option.

    It does sound daft as it is. Moyes is a far more respected manager than you give him credit for. He is also a long term proposition not a flash in the pan, spend £200 million and leave after 2 seasons shot.

    That attribute is something a massive institution such as United, with its recent history, craves.
     
    PaulM1888, May 14, 2013
    #105

  6. Shane1888

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    Fergie at City :smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002::smiley-laughing002:

    Nice trolling though.
     
    Shane1888, May 14, 2013
    #106

  7. Liam Scales

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    I don't think it is impossible to quantify; just because Pellegrini hasn't managed in the Premiership.

    I rate managers like Marcelo Lippi a lot higher than grunts like Pardew even though they haven't managed in the same league.
     
    Liam Scales, May 14, 2013
    #107

  8. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    That's not my point, I'm saying it's impossible to say the jobs that Pellegrini have done at numerous clubs instantly means he's better at football management than Moyes just because Moyes he has never won anything.

    I would argue, as I have done, that Premiership status vastly outstrips cups i.e. Wigan would have much rather stayed up than won the FA Cup. Especially when not only are you surviving within the Premiership on a pittance but you are over-performing every single year at the top end of the table.

    I don't think everyone realises where Everton would have been without him, they are 100% relegation candidates next season no matter who they bring on board unless they tempt Mourinho and an oil Sheik.
     
    PaulM1888, May 14, 2013
    #108

  9. Markybhoy

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    As far as the Moyes v Pellegrini debate goes..................

    For me it all comes down to the context of the league you are in. If I was the chairman of an EPL club then I would hire Moyes ahead of Pellegrini. If I was the chairman of a La Liga side then I would hire Pellegrini ahead of Moyes.
     
    Markybhoy, May 14, 2013
    #109

  10. Liam Scales

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    They won't be relegation candidates, they just won't do as good as Moyes did (most likely).

    It's not as cut and dry as some people are making out but in my personal opinion (and that's all it is) Pellegrini is a better manager and a more experienced manager due to what he has done and the experience he has accumulated doing so.

    Moyes will need time to adjust to the pressures that United bring. Pellegrini will be walking into City knowing exactly what is required as he has done it at a club far greater than them; with higher expectations and an even harder board to work under.

    Makes him an ideal candidate to succeed. He is also a very, very good manager. Went to the quarters of the Champions League and is on the verge of 4th spot in La Liga with a team of players that aren't even getting paid their wages anymore. He's a fantastic manager and has experienced a lot more than Moyes has with the jobs that he has had.
     
    Liam Scales, May 14, 2013
    #110

  11. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    If you are bottom half of the Premiership, you are a relegation candidate. Stoke in 10th were a relegation candidate up until last week.

    I would wager money on them being under pressure in the final weeks of next season. Their squad will be decimated, they won't be given millions to spend and the entire ethos of the club will have been ripped apart - consolidated by the fact they've also lost their talismanic Captain into the bargain.
     
    PaulM1888, May 14, 2013
    #111

  12. Liam Scales

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    Bold claim, can't see it happening though. Moyes wasn't single handedly stopping them from getting relegated every season; they are a good enough club to have that structure in place, better than the likes of Southampton, West Ham, Swansea, et al
     
    Liam Scales, May 15, 2013
    #112

  13. Liam Scales

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    What if you were a chairman of a club who wants to do well in Europe (regardless of league)?
     
    Liam Scales, May 15, 2013
    #113

  14. Celtic abu

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    I can see Man City and to a lesser extent Chelsea running riot in that league next season

    I wasn`t Mancini's greatest fan. He was too worried about not losing rather than going out to win
     
    Celtic abu, May 15, 2013
    #114

  15. Mr. Fawlty

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    Pelligrini was at Villareal for half a decade, he is not a 'flash in the pan' manager.

    You say he's only won things at clubs that are expected to win things, well, what is the job spec for a 'top' job? An expectation to win things! The same can be said of Mancini's trophies at Inter, Inter were expected to win things, it doesn't make his managerial achievements any less important.

    San Lorenzo were not expected to win the Argentine top flight, but Pellegrini turned them into champions. Moyes, for all his good points, has never won a league title, let alone three.

    Moyes is a good fit for Manchester United, I'm not saying otherwise, but top clubs in Europe would look at Pellegrini and they wouldn't look at Moyes, for the simple reason that Moyes is not a manager of international repute. Pellegrini is.

    And the chairman of a Serie A side? A Bundesliga side? A Ligue 1 side?

    Pellegrini, every time. That is the point.

    Chairmen in England have had numerous chances to hire Moyes before and haven't, even Spurs have overlooked him.

    Moyes was appointed at Manchester United in spite of his lack of success, for intangible reasons, and because of his relationship with the outgoing manager who earned the right to appoint his successor. It is a unique situation, and thus cannot be compared to general managerial appointments where the outgoing manager more often than not has no say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2013
    Mr. Fawlty, May 15, 2013
    #115

  16. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    He was Villarreal manager for 5 years then :56:which is less than Moyes current contract and less than half the time he spent at Everton i.e. not a long term solution.

    You say Moyes has never won a title as if he was expected to, his job remit was not to win titles and trophies it was to keep Everton in the Premiership, improve them as a club and try get them into Europe. He did all those things and more.
     
    PaulM1888, May 15, 2013
    #116

  17. Mr. Fawlty

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    Moyes is an anomaly, in modern football 5 years does constitute long term. (sadly)

    I don't see what you're really getting at, when Real Madrid come calling, what coach doesn't move on?

    If Moyes was approached by Real 5 years into his time at Everton, he would have jumped at the chance to leave.

    I don't say it as if he was ever expected to, I say it as it hasn't happened, simple as that.

    As for getting them into Europe, he didn't, they fell at the first hurdle.

    Europa League? Should Tony Pulis and Alan Pardew be feted as managers of a European calibre?

    Pellegrini would be appointed by any big club in Europe ahead of Moyes, the United situation is unique.

    He's been groomed for it by Fergie for years, if Man United were 'club x', Pellegrini was 'manager A', and Moyes 'manager B', manager A would be appointed nine times out of ten.

    His appointment is a reflection on all of the attributes you have highlighted, yes, but it is not a reflection on his ability versus other managers for the simple reason that there was literally no shortlist.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2013
    Mr. Fawlty, May 15, 2013
    #117

  18. dmccourt95

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    We'll see who's better at the end of next season, If mourinho goes to chelsea then neither Pellegrini or Moyes will be successful next year
     
    dmccourt95, May 15, 2013
    #118

  19. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    Moyes hasn't been groomed for anything, he got the call literally days before he took the job. Confirmed by both Moyes and Ferguson (who also confirmed he had decided at Christmas he was retiring).

    He did get them into Europe, he finished 4th in the Premiership which gets you into Europe. The qualifiers are 'Europe' and they were robbed, Duncan Ferguson had a perfectly legit goal chopped off by Collina otherwise he'd have taken them to the Group Stages proper.
     
    PaulM1888, May 15, 2013
    #119

  20. Liam Scales

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    Ferguson has been on the record for years saying Moyes would be his ideal replacement.
     
    Liam Scales, May 15, 2013
    #120
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