Scott Brown

The Commons-Ledley-Kayal-Brown lineup is the first Celtic midfields in a few years that I could see not embarrising themselves at a higher level. We must stick to that sort of lineup. It is the best part of our team and IMO stumbling on that MF is Lenny's greatest achievement as a manager. Lets put it this way, forget the stats, our defense last year was 2nd rate and not on the same level as the MF. If it were not for that super-solid MF four I think we would have shipped tons of goals.[/QUOTE]


Anyone know how to accurately portray a standing ovation in text form? This.

 

I hope you realize Kayal has only played 3 times in the first 15 SPL games last season due injuries and came back fit against Aberdeen on the 1st of February. He's the reason why our midfield looked much better this spring.

 

Gunt talks sense again

 

Technically Barca play 4-3-3 while Metrobhoy is complaining about a 4-2-4

 

Much of what is said here makes sense. I simply think Ki is much better than Ledley (particularly in a creative sense). I could see the argument for playing Ledley over Ki when a more defensive setup is required.

 

got to disagree

The Commons-Ledley-Kayal-Brown MF is all about structure. Ledley allows Izz to overlap and covers well. Brown almost gives us a 3rd CM, something that I think we often have looked like we needed in tougher games. Commons is like a cross between a striker and a winger. Its really fluid with a lot of them playing a hybrid or changing role.

What I actually worry about is that we dont really have anyone else who combines mobility, some ability to attack with defensive attributes like Broony. Noone else can do the 'Broony role'. He is back playing his old Hibs role to some degree and it does seem to suit him better than being some sort of CM anchor man. He really suits an all action position where he is moving about all over the place rather than a disciplined anchor position which (although he is not bad at) wastes a lot of his attributes.

Why change such a good combo as Commons-Ledley-Kayal-Broony? I presume this is so the old dream of two wee wingers can be reinstated? IMO not only did that formation not work in tough games but the baffling reverting to it for a game cost us the league.

 

I agree that individually Ki has a lot more than Ledley but Ledley simply works as a crucial cog in a really tight MF, just as Broony does. However, overall I think Ledley is overhyped to a huge degree and if Ki could be trained to cover for Izz as well as Ledley did last season then it would be an open-shut case for Ki ahead of Ledley. IMO ledley is potentially more replaceable than Broony. The new 'broony role' of a wide-CM hybrid is a very modern one and I dont think we have too many players who could do it. So that for me makes Broony a cert for starting. I thought maybe Juarez could have done the role but he has gone. None of the other wide players can do the role IMO.

 

Cheers mate Saved me telling him:icon_mrgreen:

 

Ki is a great passer of the ball and never panics while on it. He was different class in the 2-2 game at ibrox last season. Great example of why he's made for tight midfield battles. Far better than Ledley. Kayal is perfect for Ki also and with Brown backing him up we look really solid.

If tough away games, I'd play all 5 though with Commons behind Samaras if we don't sign anybody.

 

This 4-2-4 thing is part of our own mythology of the Celtic way. OK maybe the Lions could do it but we cant. We are not Barcelona except inside Mogga's head a couple of seasons back. We dont have the player quality, pacey defenders etc. The wish to play like that just makes me think of Mogga, Barnes, Burns etc with their ideals of ultra-attacking formations. We shouldt forget that pre-Xmas Lenny also seemed to be going down that route and it really wasnt working.

Strachan played two wingers but he was very much 4-4-2 not 4-2-4 and he played a couple of physical CMs and most importantly there was very severe positional disipline and a no-risks way of playing that fans didnt really like/appreciate. Unless we are going to go back to that safety first type game I cant see us getting away with two wingers. It basically has only worked for Strachan in modern times and has otherwise either been a failure or has been avoided. Remember too that even Strachan dropped a winger or striker in the harder games. He got criticised for that but he knew what he was doing as his record makes clear.

 

nah i love brown he is basically a modern day lennon

 

Keep brown, get him a contract. he brings banter to the sqaud also and everybody likes him so yeah keep

 

As ever, the voice of reason.

Brown gives us balance. I'm sure most would agree that the mccourts, maloneys and forrests of this world are more talented footballers than Scott Brown, but none of them can fulfil his vital role in the team of harrying, pressing opponent wingers and fullbacks and stepping inside to secure the middle of the park.

We play a 2-man centre mid and invariably come up against teams playing 3 in the middle. Brown's tenacity, aggression and high-intensity pressing when he drifts inside enables us to gain a foothold in the game and effectively ensures we have 3CM's when we don't have the ball and 2 when we do. It gives us flexibility and a platform upon which to dominate games from the midfield. As nice as the idea of playing a buccaneering 442 with flying wingers and fullbacks is, people should cast their mind back to Love Street under Mowbray. It still makes me shudder.

I'm baffled by how short some people's memories are and how little tactical acumen some people, despite watching 50-odd games of football a year, appear to have.

 

Yep, I thought Mowbray taught us that all out attack with super high up wingers (4-2-4 essentially) leads to teams frustrating us and hitting us easily on the break.

As you mentioned, Lennon has been stung by a more offensive 4-4-2 with high wingers (Forrest high on right, Commons on left) and we end up getting overrun in the centre.

Strachan never let his wingers get too carried away (indeed drilling into McGeady & Maloney the importance of helping out the full-back)

The happy medium as displayed last season is:

.............................Commons
Ledley....Ki...Kayal................

-

Commons.............................
..............Ledley...Kayal...Brown

and all sorts of combinations of this. There's actually a lot of flexibility considering it's essentially the same formation.

.................................................Forrest/Commons/McCourt
Mulgrew/Ledley....Ki/Brown...Kayal................

 

If you've ever watched Barcelona then you'd know just how different their style and formation is to a direct and attacking 442. No resemblance whatsoever.

 

Just need to cast our minds back to May when we played Maloney and Commons wide against Caley and blew the league. That night it was 100% about a totally wrong team structure. There was a massive hole in our team and we were totally outnumbered in the middle of the park.

 

Agree 100%

No one wants him to be a success more than me but there are limitations in his game that will never be coached out.

He will be a weak link in Europe through poor discipline and ball retention, just like in Utrecht last season.

 

i would say that joe is better than broony but broony is more effective than joe when he is shoved out wide. i would say this is a good problem to have.

 

Brown seems to be the reason we lose posession alot in europe tbh, as much as I want him to be great