UCL Last 16: Celtic v Juventus Chat

Quite frankly this is my view as well. It disgusts me and you're right - we would rightly be * off if it was the other way about.

I wonder if the same people would use terms like "* *". Probably don't see it as the same as calling people "Tally *" when it is literally the same concept.

 

Indeed. People throwing around stuff like this need to talk a long look at themselves and just think.

 

At least someone else has picked up on it and finds it equally as unacceptable.

 

What if we say they Italian * are * dark haired, tanned skinned, good looking, fashionable, pizza eating * that live in nice weather surrounded by nice buildings but they are sneaky, cheating and corrupt? :smiley-laughing002:

 

I think a lot of us noticed it and were embarrassed. In my case I'm still fairly new here and didn't really want to get into an argument with people who had been here a lot longer than me, many of whom I recognised as people whose posts are normally quite rational.

 

Im fed up of this penalty talk. The ref never awarded them. Deal with it. Yes i agree we should have had 2,3 or maybe 4 penalties and it would have certainly changed the game. We dominated the game versus Juventus and never scored a * goal! We had 7 shots on target and all of them went down Buffons throat. We had plenty of chances to get back into the match without anyones help. Our final pass or shot was not of high enough quality thats required at this level. Our overall play was pretty good but mistakes at the back and poor finishing up top costs everyone at this level. Hopefully lessons are learned and we improve and come back stronger.

 

You're correct, most of the ones I've saw are from regulars and long-time members. Though to me that makes it even more unacceptable.

 

You are obviously right about it being a cultural thing. As I don't think you are going to convince anyone on here that Juve's tactics at the corners were fair. Likewise it seems pretty obvious no-one is going to convince you that Hooper's tactics were fair.

However as I said earlier I don't blame Juve for what they did because it was obvious they were getting away with it and it was working so there was no incentive for them to change their tactics.

My problem was with the officials as I don't believe they were doing their job.

You have said you believe Hooper was committing fouls. Now whether I agree with or not again surely it is for the referee to punish him if he believes that to be the case he should have given Juve free kicks.

 

Thanks for the link, I've wanted something like that for ages!

Nevertheless, as I said the wording is very vague: what exactly is "unfairly impeding" the Goalkeeper. I take it to mean either through obstruction (which we've already been through) or holding etc. I doubt it means occupying a position you think the keeper is likely to want to take,; but there may be an argument there. Clarification needed from somebody on that quoted sentence, I think.

 

Glad I could be of help :icon_mrgreen:

The wording is vague, as is most of the wording in FIFA's laws, which is where the different interpretations come in, I suppose. Personally, I would consider a striker standing toe to toe with the keeper as unfairly impeding the keeper.

When Lichsteiner got booked, he went towards the goalline official and the microphones picked up on him asking "What can I do?". I think that's a legitimate question and arguably the main issue - if you allow Hooper to 'mark' Buffon, but not allow Lichsteiner to get his body in between them (even aggressively, if necessary), then you are granting Celtic an unfair advantage. I think both Hooper and Lichsteiner were fouling, so where I agree with you guys is that the ref was weak and probably could have sent them both off.

I do think that Celtic were slightly naive to get themselves so wound up by it, I think they should have realised that the ref isn't going to allow Hooper to mark Buffon and focused more on actually creating chances from the many corners they had.

 

Christ are ye still on about this, at what point did Hooper restrict anybodies movement,
FFS i thought we'd went over this already. It was Lichtenstein who went over to where Hooper was standing pushed him out the way with his chest.

He started the whole thing and Hooper was not infringing the movement of the keeper by standing next to him.

Go and read the rules, it states that a goalkeeper cannot be fouled, when he is in possession of the ball

A player is not allowed to prevent a player from running into an advantageous position.

Holding an opponent includes the act of preventing him from moving past or around using the hand.

Referees are reminded to make an early intervention and to deal firmly with holding offences inside the penalty areas at corner kicks and free kicks

It is an offence for a player to restrict a goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him, e.g. at the taking of corner kicks

Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the path of the opponent to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent when the ball is not within playing distance of either players

All players have a right to their position on the field of play, being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent

If a player attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)

All of these offences are yellow card - red card offences and penalty kicks/free kicks.

Lichtensteiner was guilty of all of thiese things, or most of them, Buffon if anything just wanted to get involved, Hooper was hauled to the ground, As soon as the corner gets taken he's pushing Hooper or pushing his own defender into Hooper.

And you know what, Lichtensteiner wasn't the only one, they were all at it.

Ask yourself this, what is a defenders motivation to hold a player. An attacker just wants to challenge for the ball.

If a player isn't challenging for the ball he can't challenge a player whether the player is near the ball or not. If he has the ball it's a straight red card.

Put it this way, imagine a player has the ball and someone runs up and pushes him off the ball it's a foul isn't it, the same rule applys is he doesn't have the ball.

Now the question is did Lichtensteiner pull Hooper to the ground - yes, did he push Brown to the ground yes. With Hooper it was when the ball was in play - penalty and a yellow card. Brown's incident was when the ball was out of play, but with raised arms that's unsporting conduct and a straight yellow card minimum.

Lichtensteiner feigning injury is unsporting conduct - again a straight yellow card offence. Pirlo going over to con the referee is also against the so called rules under unsportsmanlike behavior.

Brown in another incident, is rugby tackled around the waste, that one is a yellow, if he has a slight chance of getting the ball it's a red. Either way you look at it, it's a penalty.

Every Juventus players was guilty of fouling at set plays.

These are all quotes from FIFA BTW so you can clamp it.

Lichtensteiner was a red card either way you look at it, Hooper getting caught around the neck from Buffon is dangerous play, this is a straight red card.

We are only going on what the cameras picked up on and with the video footage it is clear that, Buffon takes a position on the goal line, Hooper takes a position next to him giving him some space, Then Lichtensteiner pushes him towards Buffon you see. Hooper held his position and Buffon moved towards him and got needlessly involved.

That's it, by law it was one penalty to begin with and Lichtenstein off. That's the rules, but the referee doesn't want to be responsible for Juve losing does he. It's that simple.

In Spain, do they give penalties for that, not likely. They are somehow slow to take up this rule like they have in Germany and England. In Scotland it goes on, but you have to draw the line with A: the referee stopping the game to let it continue and we all watch, then not doing something about it.

If you are not going to do something about it, if it isn't a law of the game, then why does the referee stop the corner kick?

He looked stupid and he made a mistake.

Our players have no reason to hold Juve players at a corner kick it's always the defenders who are motivated to block and hold.

But when it comes to both arms around the waste, players getting dragged round the neck into the net, this is not football - but yet you want to whinge because our player stood on the line, and your own player pushed him towards the other side of Buffon, then refused to let him move anywhere else in the box.

Everyone knows what went on, the incident was purely Lichtenstein's. What are you meant to do at set pieces have the defenders push you into an area that they think is OK.

This is football and corners are like penalties, the attacking team should have the advantage and expect a fair chance to challenge for a ball.

If these challenges go on outside the box it's a free-kick every time, so what's different inside the box?

Brown get rugby tackled making a run for a cross and he is knowhere near Buffon.

A bit of contact in the box is fine, but if we did that to you guys you'd be diving about all over the shop, we at least try and stay on our feet.

It's a joke and lots of people are on our side, if some Juve fan who lives in England and has never been to a game in his life and can manage ten keepie uppies thinks we care about what he thinks he's needing to keep taking the medication.

Deny all you want, but that is why no teams score against Juve, they obviously get coached on professional fouls and this spoils the competitive nature of the game.

Expect a clamp down on this people, it's coming, our legal people are on the case and in the next game i guarantee we'll get a German ref, then we'll see how you get on without cheating at aet plays.

 

I already knew that's what he was thinking. It was written all over his face. What the referee should have done IMO is enforce Hooper's right to stand there. Yes it does mean your goalkeeper has an extra problem, but that is the beauty of the tactic and Lichsteiner should have had to lump it. Of course if, like you, you think Hooper was breaking the rules, then he should have given a foul to Juve. If you interpret the (I think we both agree rather vague) rule the way you are saying, then effectively the Goalkeeper has a protective bubble around him that no opposing player is allowed to occupy. I don't accept that. At any rate, I'd really like to see this clarified, because domestic football is one thing, but I strongly believe that we would not have been allowed to employ this tactic in Europe against teams like Barca if it were against the rules.

 

Like i said, Hooper stood on the line, Lichtensteiner pushed him into a position, the arms are wraaped around Hooper he's pushing with his body weight and all this.

The idea with stopping the corner kick is to disrupt play, to change the flow of when the corner kick gets taken and when it gets taken.

The refs in Spain wait until he's happy that the fouling has stopped, if it contiues a player gets booked. This incident distracts from the other fouls on other players and it becomes a complete farce.

Hooper got booked for backing in, Lichtenstein got booked for backing in, when the corner gets taken the ref looks away and Hooper is thrown into the back of the net.

It's disgraceful behavior on a football park at this level

 

except the B-marked part, best comment so far

 

I try to be decent with people but are these folk still claiming we shouldnt of had a penalty???

 

Look man, we can handle getting beaten. Sure we lost the game, but at 1-0 a penalty makes it exciting. It makes it 1-1. Possibly It creates the atmosphere that everyone wants to experience - a fouls a foul. Inside the box it's a penalty.

Lichtensteiner goes off for unsporting behavior or whatever - boom!! What a game we'd have had on our hands.

You see, if a player is daft enough to keep committing these fouls it's there fault.
Even Gianluca Vialli said Juventus took it too far. If it happens at the other end you'd be wanting a penalty wouldn't you.

How would this behavior go down in Turin? Would all the fans be going well it's not a foul it's OK. Would they *. They'd be raging, it would be all over the media and your opinion would be completely different.

 

First time I've really been able to face anything football-related since the match. Absolutely gutted with the result. Ambrose (as I said to my friend when the teams were announced) should never have played.

I thought Lichtsteiner's cheating (and it was cheating) was unacceptable but to be fair, Juventus' game plan worked perfectly. Celtic never really forced Buffon into making a good save. We played well until we got somewhat close to their goal, at which point Juve regained the ball and counter-attacked. I think Lichtsteiner knew he was going to be allowed manhandle Hooper all night long. I was really drunk when the game was on, but that's the way I remember things.

 

Yeah it's also Hooper's job to be scoring in the box at corners and to be fair he had no intention of trying to get into a position where he might have got on the end of the cross.

 

I agree with all of this. Especially the first and last sentences.

 

Thanks