If they get stripped of any titles; should we include then on our honours list

i imagine when the individual at the oldco decided to cheat with their finances he probably looked at what the sanctions would be if they were caughtand thought to himself......we are Rangers....they wouldnt dare........and for that reason they should be stripped of everything they won during the cheat period.....as for celtic beingh awarded those titles.......void them..i dont want them....they cant give us back those title celebrations.....and it would show as a bigger shame on them that the titles those season had to be voided.

 

Absolutely NOT.

This is not about Celtic - it is not about Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee, QoS or anyone else for that matter, that may stand to supposedly 'benefit' from retroactively reassigning these 'honours' - even if these can be determined without contest.

On a purely cosmetic level - and that is what this reassigning would be - purely cosmetic - how can these even be worked out without being challenged? Take the Cups for example. Who is to say that the R/Up should get the honour, if RFC (Oldco) had not used illegally registered players to defeat teams at the semi or quarter final stage etc?

But I digress. There is something far more important and longer lasting than for what is effectively a band-aid over a open sore.

Voiding works. It has worked effectively in America and in Australia. Citing one example, the Melbourne Storm in the NRL were stripped of 2 Premierships and 3 Minor Premierships, in addition to having to pay back all prize monies won from these, due to financial irregularities. These 'titles' were not reassigned to the R/Up, but are left void. For all time the history books will show a void in that space & will forever be a permanent reminder of what happened there. It promotes questions, It provides a permanent reminder and it leaves a scar that shall not be covered up by the cosmetic ease of reassigning these.

Here in Scotland the idea is only further emphasized, given the previous preeminence of RFC (Oldco) and the tale of how the mighty fell. We cannot be so short sighted in what is effectively only a minor, fleeting triumph when there is the long term moral victory to consider. For one, the notion of actually accepting the retroactively awarded is surrounded by juxtaposition - all of a sudden Stein's 9IAR achievement is cast aside by what many will consider to be asterisk mark honours. There is no magic moment of a Cup win and victory is sweetest when savoured. Where is the pride when a dump truck arrives at Parkhead and dumps a clutter of silverware at the footstep? Such an image bears more of a resemblence to a junkyard or garage sale.

Leaving them voided, there can be no hiding as to the truth about these 21st century events - that RFC (Oldco) lived way beyond their means. Just how much they did win only emphasizes the degree of their overspending, cooked books, second contracts and curious paper trails. It illustrates the degree of their cheating as well as providing the generational evidence that the Newco is NOT the same as the Oldco. While we may have a reasonable grasp of this today, will your children in 20 years time? Or their children? And theirs, beyond?

The history books will show honours voided, black marks and stains on the soul of the game; the lowpoint. It defined an era - when the once mighty R*ngers died and with it went the perception that the Scottish game was solely for the benefit of and reliant upon 2 clubs from Glasgow. That this it became something more. It became about the fans saying enough, about the clubs taking a stand for sporting integrity and it is from this that Scottish Football will have began it's true rebirth.

 

Dont want them and dont need them.

They should be marked void

 

I agree 100% with everything Taz has said.

I would also add the from a personal perspective, I wouldnt really take any pleasure or real value in suddenly "winning" another 5 titles. What makes winning a game special is a sense of achievement and the memories that surround success. The first time I saw Celtic win the league against St Johnstone in 1998 will stay with me forever because of the sheer excitment of the day and the accomplishment of the team. I will always remember the league wins under ONeil because we were so dominant, and I will remember the title last season largely as one in which Lennon succeeded after putting up with so much off-the-field.

But if we suddenly "win" these titles that Rangers are stripped off, are we going to be partying in the street? Will is create a whole new set of memories of that period? I would suggest no as there can surely be no emotional attachment to being given a title win of a league played out last decade. If it is found that Rangers deserve to be stripped of these titles then they rightly should be. But they mean nothing to me and to me we still didnt win anything.

History books should show that Rangers ruined 5 years of the Scottish league through cheating and not that Celtic were successful over said period. Because to me that is far more reflective of what actually happened.

 

we may of been cheated out of them, but we never won them. so no

 

Thats a fair shout. We still should have won a few of them anyway but flapped

 

Naw

 

Yes we did. We finished with more points than all the competitors who didn't cheat.

 

I would say yes. We were clearly better then the other spl teams so they would be well earned titles in my opinion.

 

No way, I don't want them. Those years should have no "official" champion recognized. Here in the States, the University of Southern California cheated their way to the 2004 Football National Title. Like USC, Rangers should be stripped of ALL titles BUT no champion will be recognized for those years....

 

its up to the sfa if they go out and recalculate the leagues and its showed we have won then yes but we are all getting a bit carried away those titles can't be taken until oldco have been proven to cheated which has not happened yet

 

As I noted earlier in this thread, the exact same thing happened in Australia, where the Melbourne Storm were stripped of their 2007 & 2009 NRL Premierships, 3 Minor Premierships (2006-08) as well as having to go through the entire 2010 season without the ability to accumulate premiership points. These were not retrospectively reassigned, but left voided. This works in the USA, it works in Australia, it can work in Scotland. They should be stripped, but the honours should not be reassigned elsewhere.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/22/melbourne-storm-stripped-nrl-titles

 

Absolutely, I'll have them.

Twelve-in-a-row!

The meltdown it would occasion would be hilarious.

 

I wouldn't want them. Just to see them stripped/the titles being marked as void would be enough for me.

 

Celtic and any other club should be awarded titles/cups why not.

 

Well of course we should. It's not a new thing in sports to be stripped of a victory for cheating and the victory handed to the next in line that didn't feel the need to cheat.

In athletics if an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs, wins Olympic gold and then gets caught they are automatically disqualified and the silver medalist is awarded the gold.

In F1 there's been numerous cases of teams breaking FIA regulations and being caught post-race then the driver being stripped of the win and it's handed down to the non-cheat who finished second. This was most apparent in the 80's with teams putting lead shot in the fuel tank as an illegal unfixed ballast.

In horse racing if a jockey whips the horse too much during a race then he's disqualified post-race and the result changed accordingly.

Football: Marseille and Juventus, enough said.

I can't even believe that there's any doubt about what should happen now that the Huns have been caught cheating. In any other sport or any other league it would just get done without any drama.

 

Naw, I just want it marked down in the history books that the huns cheated to get these trophies.

 

dout it will happen would love to see the look on macoists face though

:bbpd::bbpd:

 

Ofcourse we will, we might have been robbed of getting to celebrate them but we won them fair and square.