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Fraser Forster

Discussion in 'World Football' started by TAB, Jan 3, 2012.

Discuss Fraser Forster in the World Football area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. ILoveTheCeltic

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    Should probably have added in another area like command of area, as Boruc was the best at that out them all by quite a distance, so...

    BORUC
    9/10 1 on 1
    7/10 short reflex saves from close range
    6/10 shots from distance
    7/10 penalties
    6/10 freekicks
    7/10 crosses
    8/10 command of area
    6/10 kicking

    FORSTER
    7/10 1 on 1
    8/10 short reflex saves from close range
    9/10 shots from distance
    8/10 penalties
    9/10 freekicks
    5/10 crosses
    5/10 command of area
    5/10 kicking

    GORDON
    6/10 1 on 1
    8/10 short reflex saves from close range
    6/10 shots from distance
    7/10 penalties
    6/10 freekicks
    6/10 crosses
    5/10 command of area
    6/10 kicking

    MCGREGOR
    6/10 1 on 1
    8/10 short reflex saves from close range
    4/10 shots from distance
    7/10 penalties
    5/10 freekicks
    6/10 crosses
    5/10 command of area
    4/10 kicking

    KLOS

    7/10 1 on 1
    8/10 short reflex saves from close range
    6/10 shots from distance
    7/10 penalties
    7/10 freekicks
    6/10 crosses
    6/10 command of area
    3/10 kicking

    In comparison to a world class keeper for example

    NEUER

    10/10 1 on 1
    9/10 short reflex saves from close range
    9/10 shots from distance
    8/10 penalties
    9/10 freekicks
    8/10 crosses
    9/10 command of area
    7/10 kicking


    62/70 Neuer
    51/70 Forster
    48/70 Boruc
    47/70 Klos
    44/70 Gordon
    43/70 McGregor

    Again thats me thinking of Gordon at his best, he's almost certainly not as good now.
     
  2. martin_d

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    Not as weak off his line as Forster, and on top of that (and more importantly), he has far better command of his area than Forster. Forster's never been a 'talker' at the back, in the way that Boruc exemplified when here. Gordon - at his peak - was one of the best 'leader' style GKs in the EPL. If we can get him back to even 75% of that form, we've won a watch (if he stays fit).

    EDIT: Just to make it clear, I'm not necessarily comparing them in terms of overall quality - just style. Gordon's more of an 'all-rounder' than either Boruc or Forster, imo. Less occasionally mistake-prone than Boruc at times was, while also more convincing at set-plays, etc than Forster.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2014
  3. Soul Rebel

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    Forster should be about 9/10 for one on ones and about 2/10 for command of his area and crossing.
     
  4. ILoveTheCeltic

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    Not a lot of keepers are good at crosses and commanding the area though. It's either something keepers are good at or not and about 95% of keepers arent good at it. So you cant mark them that low when its just something that not a lot of keepers can do well.

    Best keepers at that are probably 6ft3/4 goalkeepers. Keepers over 6ft4 are usually hesitant as they are a bit slower at coming out and keepers under it are again hesitant as they're usually smaller with smaller reaches so coming out could get them caught out.

    For example id say Forster is 1 point better at both than Casillas, so that would mean giving Casillas 1/10 for both :56: yet Casillas is obviously better at it than Jamie McDonald that played for Hearts, so if you mark too low you run out of points.

    Was trying to think of an average keeper there so used that guy but just though of the likes of Mark Brown or Zaluska.

    Youd give Zaluska about a 3 at commanding the area and 4 at crosses and Mark Brown a 3 at each, maybe a 2 at commanding the area. Most keepers even very good ones like Reina, Cech, De Gea and that would get average marks of 5/6 at it.

    Commanding the box or being good at crosses, for an outfield player is probably akin to being a good set peice taker, where some players are good but a lot are average. Where even players like Mulgrew can compete with players like Gerrard for set peice taking.
     
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  5. cat123

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    It looks like b big Forster's away. That must be where the transfer kitty is coming from, it's a shame he has gone but I think he knew he was off after the Legia game.
     
  6. Soul Rebel

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    Not a lot of keepers are good at commanding their area or dealing with crosses? You're talking a lot of *, its the absolute fundamentals of being a good goalkeeper, especially so in Britain. Its what your taught from an early age, if you're not tall enough or good enough at commanding your box you don't make it. That last little paragraph is an even bigger lot of *, as i said, its part of the fundamentals of being a good goalkeeper and one of the most important parts of your job, keeping everything organised and commanding your area, likening it to a luxury such as being able to take set pieces is a million miles wide of the mark.
     
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  7. ILoveTheCeltic

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    He is good at it though hence why he's made it as a goalkeeper.

    You're the one contradicting yourself by saying you'd give him a 2/10 at both of them and then saying if you're not good enough you don't make it as a goalkeeper :39:
     
  8. KevvyBhoy

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    I would include scores for Concentration and differentiate between kicks (/throws) made in a controlled manner to distribute the ball (Distribution) and clearances made under pressure (Kicking??).

    IMO Forster scores high on Concentration and (maybe only since recently) Distribution but he's pretty awful when it comes to just putting it into row Z from a backpass.
     
  9. Soul Rebel

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    No i said if you're not good enough or tall enough. Forster is so tall that he should be able to deal with crosses comfortably and maybe with the right coaching or confidence he could be great at it, right now he is * awful.
     
  10. ILoveTheCeltic

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    What im meaning is that, there is a differance from being decent at it to good, a lot of keepers are decent at it but very few are good and barely any are great. And the gap between decent and good is big.

    Forster is slow at coming off his line though, he probably feels uncomfortable at coming out for crosses incase he doesn't get there. In which case it's smarter to stay on you're line.

    Casillas for example is small with small reach yet he quite a lot comes out and flaps like a maniac at crosses and makes a * of himself.

    As a keeper it's better to do what you're more comforable at than gamble.

    De Gea is also not very good at crosses but rather than coming out and flap like Casillas and what he actually done quite a few times in his earlier days at Atletico and Man U, you now notice he doesn't come off his line as theirs no point if he's only going to make a * of it.

    A Keeper whos not that good at crosses or coming out off his ine /commanding his box his can actually be decent at in comparison to ones who are bad at it, like the likes of Forster and De Gea it's just that very few goalkeepers are good at it, it's a hard skill the poise, timing, jump and catch/punch has to be well timed all the while players are moving around, standing infront and bumping into you. Theres about 4/5/6 steps involved in a keeper coming out for a cross, they get slagged a lot for punching the ball as well but it's a difficult thing to do to come and catch.
     
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  11. jpr21

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    i know he saved some one on ones but i felt alot of the time he got his angles completely wrong can remember on numerous occasions his positioning in a one on one situation was dreadful . He is a fairly decent goalkeeper and nothing more imo, i have never believed the hype.
     
  12. Soul Rebel

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    No goalkeeper that cant command his area or deal with crosses could be anything other than a 'good' goalkeeper.

    I also think you're underestimating a lot of goalies ability to deal with crosses etc. De Gea has actually improved dramatically since he got dropped the first time for being * at it. I also don't really see how there can be a dramatic jump between decent and good? Decent and good are pretty much two of the same thing, i could understand if it was good and great and id maybe agree a bit more because the majority of Premier League goalkeepers and top level goalkeepers, minus the overly dramatic ones, in Europe are good if not better at dealing with crosses, organising their defence and generally commanding their box.
     
  13. ILoveTheCeltic

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    I dont see many that are that good at it, only a few.

    I think the only thing thats changed is De Gea doesnt come out his 6 yard box any more, at Atletico and Man U at the start he used to come out a lot for crosses and flap. Now he doesnt come out for them, he'll only catch or punch away if the ball comes into him otherwise he'll stay on his line.
     
  14. evilbunny1991

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    We are losing a fantastic keeper no doubt about it but there are glaring deficiencies in his game, the biggest being command of his area. He may get better as he gets older but at times it did cost us, i can think of two goals away from home against Legia that could have been avoided had Forster come off his line.

    Then again he saved a penalty, if he had more of a commanding presence he wouldn't be playing for us! He would be in Buffon/Neuer territory.

    I have good confidence in Gordon, he is a very good keeper, as long as he stays fit.
     
  15. ILoveTheCeltic

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    Same could be said of any good keeper though.

    We are losing one of our best ever keepers, even arguably best. He may not have been the best at commanding his box or at crosses but he is probably by far the best at saving/catching shots and penalites.

    Gordon at his best wasnt as good at Forster, now he's I imagine atleast 20% than he was worse given he's only played is it like 50/60 games in 5 years.
     
  16. TheHolyGoalie

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    Forster has been one of our best performers in the Lennon era, especially in Europe. It'll be sad to see him go, also having just Zaluska and Gordon gives me the fear.
     
  17. oh bhoy

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    this. they are both pish even if gordon makes a full recovery he's still a pish keeper zaluska is even worse.good keepers are hard to come by to let forster go (with 4 years on his contract)is madness
     
  18. paulB

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    Good luck big man here's to you and your future, thanks for the memories and your little parting gift with the two penalty saves.
     
  19. ekghirl09

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    The two remaining keepers are not good enough, Zaluska just needs to be moved on now. He doesn't keep clean sheets often enough. Gordon was a good keeper, has he still got is the big question. I would think Gordon's got the no1 position, we'll see if he can keep himself fit
     
  20. PaulM1888 Moderator Moderator

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    As much as I like him and I rate him as the best keeper we've had since I've supported Celtic, we cannot turn down that type of money.

    6 odd million profit, good few years and a clean sheet record. Thanks for the memories Fraz :50: