London is burning

I would say the people protesting on saturday night were the ones that were protesting about the police ..The rest of them / the vast majority are just thugs that think they can jump on the bandwagon and cause disruption wherever they go ..The sooner this country gets tough with these type of people the better ...

 

I've been reading through this thread over the past few days and a lot of what has been said, even comments that are disagreeing with each other, makes sense. There have obviously been some comments that are just written by people deliberately being wind-up merchants who know they are safe in their bedrooms whilst they are writing them.

See, in my opinion, elements of both sides of the argument being expressed here are valid. The vast majority of the people engaged in these riots are just selfish twats who ARE just taking the opportunity to smash things up and steal stuff because they know they are out-numbering the police. They have no emotional attachment to any of the events in Tottenham that sparked all of this. They have no emotional attachment to their communities or the people who live there nor to the businesses that operate in those communities.

However, that in itself makes it a political issue. Not a 'Party' Political issue. They aren't doing it because they would rather have a Labour government instead of a Tory one. They aren't doing it because they disagree with SureStart losing its funding. The political issue that is being expressed here is that there are thousands of youths in this generation that just do not give a * about ANYTHING at all. That is the biggest kind of political (with a small 'p') problem a society can face. And this type of apathy does not just spring up because people want a new TV. There has to be some sort of political solution when thousands of kids feel society offers them so little that they don't give a * about anything.

I am sickened by the images I have seen. Anyone who accuses me of being some kind of an apologist for the scum that are burning people's houses down or mugging injured and disorientated kids has not understood my point. If the people rioting are battered to within an inch of their lives tonight, by people who are scared shitless that they and their families might be hurt, I won't shed a single tear for one of them. But at the same time, I don't advocate the use of pre-meditated violence towards them. NOT because i don't feel that they deserve it, but just because it will in no way make the situation better. It will only lead to a further perception of injustice, thus increasing the tensions that are damaging the areas anyway.

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone one here. I just think that people are arguing with each other with a view that there is only one cause of these events; either selfishness or environment. In my opinion, the two are inextricably linked and both need to be discussed and understood to make sure these riots stop and further ones are avoided.

 

I'm sorry,What?!

So your telling me none of those companies pay the allocated Tax they are (by law) required to? Get a grip.
Why should Halfords be responsible for our governments failure to govern spending and the banks?
Why should O2 pay more taxes to help scum-pretend-gangsters do nothing for the rest of their days and father kids who we (taxpayers) have to pay for?

The riots started out as a protest against police brutality - fair enough. But what it has become has NOTHING to do with that.
Ask those morons to name their local politician, what party they voted for, their chief of Police, what they want to change.
And they will no doubt not be able to answer.
Like i said, this now has nothing to do with any politics, protest or human rights. And everything to do with opportunism and a total lack of respect for their community, other people and their property, authority and lack of consequence for their actions.

What's the betting that thanks to people like you who are trying to blame this on their circumstances and not the fact they are nothing short of animals (and probably well known thugs and petty criminals), there will be more millions of pounds of money pumped into these communities in the form of community centres, social workers, "things to do for the young" and Government outreach programs that take hoodlums go-karting.
Who is gonna pay for that?
That's right, you and me pal. Hope that makes you happy and that you can afford to lose another 1.5% of your wages.
Most of us cant.

 

well said

 

Very good post, Johnjo 76! I think you hit the nail on the head here.

 

If we go by past incidents the authorities won't be getting tough with the people actually committing the crimes. It'll be some guy coming home from work or someone looking to ride the subway who get's the brunt of it, which of course won't be the fault of the officers involved, but rather the looters who "caused it all in the first place".

If you look at the riots in the middle east, and in Greece it was pretty much the same. There were people rioting because of the conditions they were living in and the austerity measures being taken by the Government, and there were those who got involved for selfish reasons such as robbing people and breaking into shops.

We're only seeing what the news outlets want us to see. There are groups in these areas who are protesting about the conditions that they have to live in, and the police persecution they face on a daily basis, but they've been ignored for years, and they continue to be ignored now. It's far more convenient to concentrate on the criminal element at the moment because that will legitimise any actions taken by the Government later.

I'm willing to bet that among those actions will be the clamp-down on protests and rallies. When the cuts really start to bite we'll find ourselves having to break the law in order to stage a protest. Just wait & see.

In fact, I reckon that the authorities could have put a stop to this earlier if they really wanted to.

Let's see their reaction if it heads towards the more upmarket areas or political houses such as Parliament. They won't waste any time in stamping it out then.

 

Some good photos here that depict the mayhem:


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html

 

How about the people rioting pay their taxes as well? I mean I am sure some of them were employed, but most probably were not. I assume this because you know there were out acting like thugs in the middle of the night.

 

Sorry but as has been stated by others, happy people dont riot.

 

They take advantage of legal loopholes that are left in place by the politicians that they bankroll.

Vodafone have a tax bill of around £6 billion that they legally should be paying (it was actually proven in court that they should be required to pay) but as of now they haven't.

Boots, despite being a staple of British shopping for years, are operating out of a PO Box in Switzerland, seeing them paying only £14 million in UK taxes opposed to over £100 million they paid in previous years.

Tesco control 30% of the UK grocery market and have over 2,000 stores in the UK. In 2010 they made a profit of £3.4bn, yet they will still go to great lengths to avoid paying tax. Using complex legal structures Tesco has avoided stamp duty land tax to the tune of £90-£100m and £23m in stamp duty.

Tesco has its headquarters in the Hertfordshire town of Cheshunt.

Something else that you can find there is Cheshunt Overseas, a limited liability partnership that has enabled Tesco to avoid £16m in tax through overseas business rules.

I'm not even going to mention the owner of Topshop...

 

I am sure that this coherent, informed and eloquent sound byte will show you why the 'people are revolting'. * Please note this is dripped in sarcasm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

 

Very insightful post Rach, thanks

 

Can't believe people actually think these people are looting for a cause so to speak.

I bet most of these thugs couldn't give a * what's happening with the economy or even that lad getting killed.

This is just pure thuggery, nothing else. That video of the injured boy getting robbed says it all for me.

 

they dont have a clue, its very sad.

still, the question has to be asked: why??

they didn't just wake up one morning and decide to do it; the situation in the country in general is ignored with peril.

asking why such a thing is possible doesn't mean you condone the thuggery we have seen.

 

Oh I think you always need to ask why! If you dont you never find out the reasons and then history can repeat.

I think there might be a core of people from Saturday who had a genuine grievance however many now, (especially the further afield you go) are mindless copy cats, out go get what they can.

The reason that so many have jumped on this bandwagon has no doubt stemmed from the poor socio economic situation that they find themselves in..but that does not condone their actions.

 

It's a protest that was hijacked by criminal elements. There's a difference.

 

yes you're right, the vast majority are just little opportunistic thugs living a grand theft auto like wet dream.

but i think what some people are saying is that riots like this happen for a reason; its not enough to just say they were thugs * bent on new trainers or tv's: you cant ignore what is happening politically and socially in the country at the moment; we have a greedy society obsessed with wealth and fame thus is it any surprise that the rioters are so materialistic? (i.e, looting tv's, phones etc)

again, of course, this is no justification for criminal behaviour but it is not enough to frame it as just youth on the rampage for new trainers

16,000 cops on the street is necessary tonight but i do fear london is going to be an absolute war zone tonight

 

This is a good photo! Showing some community spirit

 

Its happening in a town 30 mins away from mine and my towns been put on red alert