What can we do to start winning away in Europe?

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CNicola%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I don't think these European results are down to not having a good enough team but on how we think we should play when we get there.
<o> </o>
When we go to Ibrox we normally go there to win; now I thinks playing Rangers away is every bit as hard as it would be to go to many European ground to try and get the win.

Obviously Old Trafford and the Nou Camp would bring a different way of playing but surly we have to be going to places like Utrecht or Rapid's ground with the thought to winning the game.

Why go on away days in Scotland with a different approach to the way we play in Europe.

Add to that the fact that it is well know that we have a terrible record away from home and I'm sure any manager who does his home work will know how to play against us.

Utrecht beat us 4-0 and then went out and got beat 4-0 themselves the following week end. How bad is that?
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->

 

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 11"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CNicola%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Have to disagree here.

It is not about how good you are in your own country that win make you better when you play in Europe

Every league in every country has 3 to 9 teams who represent them in Europe and they all can't win the league.

UTD , Hibs Motherwell and us all went into Euro matches and got put out and you would have to say UTD had the best result away from home, more so because they had to come out and get a result in Athens.

That is exactly what we had to do last year to get one of our few away wins in Moscow.
<o> </o>
So I think it is the way we approach the game that is the problem.

 

Our away form in the CL under MON and WGS is no mystery. Every year 2 out of 3 teams we played in our group were simply better than us and add to that a long journey and home advantage for our opponents. Our home for was punching above our weight in reality. Even the other team were usually around our level and again home advantage helped them. What I would say is its one thing having * away form when you are playing Barcelona, Milan and CL opposition in the group stages and last 16. Its totally something else against much lesser teams in qualifier rounds and the Europa League. That is when I got worried. Personally I think our own standards slipped further in the last couple of Euro campaigns and we simply were no better than the smaller teams we faced in the Europa. On the plus side Lenny cannot be blamed because he was still team building when Europe came too early for us. I have hopes that the team can gel enough to do a lot better next year.

 

We have to learn to kill games off,how many times have we got 1 or 2 goals but never went through.
To win 2-0 in one game and to lose 4-0 in the next is rather shocking.
How to fix it..? * knows,its not the same players or even manager each season but we just manager to * it up.
The only thing i can think of that stays the same is the quality of player celtic can afford and buy,and there is not alot we can do about that due to the spl being cash poor.
Playing in the spl is like living on a giro.

 

I dont think this can be used as a excuse anymore.....we * out of europe no matter who we play and no matter what stage there league is at or what players they have signed.
Other teams have new managers and new players and are building teams...yet they win SOMETIMES.
We fail non stop.....it must be to do with cash or style of football we play in the spl.
And yet the players we have in the team have come from all over europe so should be able to play in euro games.

 

As I said in the John Marsden transfer rumour thread.. if we're gonna sign game characters we should sign good ones. I really think we could make some good signing who would be useful away in europe. For starts I'd have MasterChief at centre back, he has been all around the universe fighting battles, im sure he'd stroll a game at the Nou Camp.. And Crash Bandicoot for Scott Brown ( cos they look alike) You all remember how many worlds he had in his game??. But Mainly Master Chief, Easy solution lads .

 

Need to stop * around with 4-5-1 formations, it clearly is not working. It invites pressure and teams easily break us down within 30 minutes meaning our game plan is out of the window and the players are looking around wondering what they should do now.

Go 4-4-2 home and away games IF the team is beatable, if we come across top teams Ac Milan, Barca, Man u, etc then we can't afford to play anything but 4-5-1 but teams that are there for the taking (Braga, Utrecht) then we need to go there and take the game to them, I can just hear the other teams manager when we are away in europe, "Celtic will come here and play 1 up front, they have only won once in hundreds (slight exaggeration ) of games, they cabt defend away from home, attack them from the off.

And it works, our mentality away from home is wrong, players just hoping for a draw, we need to surprise teams and go for it every now and again, we might get even heavier defeats, but I can promise you one thing, we will have a much better success rate.

Even if we are 4-0 up from the home leg, if we sit back we will concede goals, if we went there and attacked teams, we could have it wrapped it with an away goal.

Players need to stop being sorry for the language but fannies away from home and stand up and be counted.

 

To be honest i think the away form is a bigger problem than we all think, beat I.C.t 1-0 away, beat st.mirren 4-0 at home and beat Motherwell 1-0 away - just hope this isnt starting to become a problem domestically aswell.

 

I honestly think it a mental problem with Celtic.

i can't quite put my finger on how exactly but perhaps some shamen hun has put a curse on us to fail in Europe forever more, forever more

 

Forget all about this nonsense that it's a mentality thing, how many of the current team have played in Europe away for Celtic more than four times ? Not too many, so I don't believe it's some mental barrier for a minute going back 30 games or so.

Basically I feel it's simply down to players not being diciplined enough, look at the Lisbon Lions and the run of results they had in Europe based on the two leg tie mentality. We won at home against Benefica 3-0 and lost away 0-3, ending up with us going through on the toss of a coin, how many of us would have challenged Jock Stein's tactics ? That team contained some of the best players we've ever had, but yet they lost a 3 goal lead away from home.

No, I believe if the players follow the instructions set out by the manager we would be okay, in Utrecht it's debatable if any of our enture team would have received pass marks.

A simple 4 + 4 defensive block of 8 players should in most cases deprive your opponents space to operate in your half of the pitch, the problem starts when one or two of those eight goes missing by getting pulled out of position. The front two strikers must also play their part by not allow your opposition to build from the back, I don't remember seeing Fortune or Samaras busting a gut to close Utrecht's back four down.

It's been said many times before, defend from the front and don't give the ball away easily, these are the two cardinal sins which we commit in every away game in Europe.

 

yep totally agree with people in this thread. Worry about europe later, when we have an established team and dont need to build it from scratch like this year. Then, if all goes well we can have a much better crack at europe.

 

I think we must buy many good players as Larsson, Nakamura...
________
Vaporizer

 

Get a new BOARD, sack the present board!

 

yeah but mogga did the big dismantling and Lenny had to bring in loads of players. It was a big transformation. We probably will start games over the next week or two fielding 10 players who have not played more than a handful of competitive games for Celtic and many combinations will be even less tried than that. IMO it will be into October before this team will show its true ability and it will continue to gel for months after that. So I am delighted that we are picking up the points although the competition so far has been weak.

 

Granted we have signed 11 new players and last year we did the same and wgs did the same when he first came....but we have been losing in europe for longer than that...year in year out our away form has been shocking to the point teams must be glad when they draw us cause they know we will fold like a bit of paper in a gale when we play away from home.
I have no doubt we will get better and better in the spl but i think come europe next year its going to be the same old story......hope i'm wrong but i really think the flaw is within scotland and the spl.