Hinkel

This is pretty much my point people see highlights of games and see a cross coming in from the right resulting in the critical goal and start shouting why this should be happening.

The fact is crosses are going to come in. Doesn't matter if you're Cafu or Roberto Carlos but crosses are going to come in because teams have their best players on the wing.

There have been times he could've done better (what player in the world can't say this) but a harmless, innocuous cross can easily be turned into a goal due to our chronic problem - idiot centre-backs / goalkeeper / marking. I guarantee you that with better centre-backs / keeper Hinkel would be hailed as the best full-back in the past 20 years at this club.

It's not as if there's a BARRAGE of crosses coming in from the right. The problem is the few that do come across are simply not dealt with time and time again.

What's the quickest way to beat our centre-backs? A High ball. Where do high balls come from? The flanks. Who's to blame? Hinkel. Aye right!

 

see tbh that is part of a full backs job! and thats to TRY and stop crosses getting into the box. easier said than done but if you have top fullbacks that can do this? then you will be letting in less goals.but DEFEND is the 1st thing you should be doing regardless.

 

I agree with you that the biggest problem in our defence is the centre- backs and not Hinkel. I think most people would go along with that to be honest. That, however, does not mean Hinkel's defensive frailty should be ignored. Just because there's someone worse in the team doesn't mean it's ok for Hinkel to carry on being poor in his defensive work.

I accept crosses will always come into our box at some stage in a match. That's part and parcel of football. But what * me off a bit with Hinkel is people can still get there crosses into our box when Hinkel's within 2 or 3 yards of him. I mean, what is the guy actually doing? Close the man down or put a tackle in ffs! He's just much too passive for my liking.

 

I suppose the differences here is I think he does a decent job at stopping the crosses, getting in tackles / good positions and you guys don't think that. What is irreputable is his attacking ability imo so until we get decent centre-backs in I don't think it's hugely fair to concentrate the mire on Hinkel.

 

In all fairness, I suppose if Hinkel could defend really well and he had the attacking ability he has then he probably wouldn't be at Celtic anyway.

 

the whole defence is far to passive,thats why most supporters have been screaming for a 6 4 no nonsense cb ,big bobo was * on the deck ,but * me nuthing beat him in the air in our box ,he was also 1 of the biggest factors in me being 100% confident in beating rangers when he was playing.

 

More than likely, unfortunately.

An attacking minded manager will therefore put more emphasis on his attacking qualities, I don't have a problem with this IF we had centre backs who could cope, unfortunately we don't.

I'm glad we have Hinkel though as once we get the CB's sorted and less goals being conceeded his attacking abilities will be important to our style of play.

 

That's what I was saying in one of my earlier posts. I actually think it borders on being irresponsible to push our full-backs so far up the park when we know our centre-backs aren't capable of going man to man on opposing strikers. I'd like to see our full-backs just be a bit more cagey about going forward for a while till we get the back door shut.

 

That's not Hinkels fault though, the manager should be instructing the fullbacks not to push so far forward.

 

Oh I know that. It used to annoy me when Strachan did it so I have to be consistent and say I wish Tony Mowbray would stop it till we get the defence sorted.

 

the biggest problem with our defense is they try and * about with the of side rule, holding a line is one thing, but holding the line when you are 5 yards from the attacker, is quite a different matter, and end up facing the wrong way when defending end result if yer lucky is giving away a corner, or a penalty thats what Caldwell has done on numerest occasions

 

The fullbacks should be able to get back and cover....or re-cover if they push up the field....

If a full-back has gone too far forward, its his fault and his responsibility to get back!!!

The manager is playing an attacking game...Hinkel just cant cope....that means its the managers fault

If Hinkel didnt push forward he would have no point in the team...he's a spectator in defense...

Ashley Cole, Sagna, Clichy , Evra, Alves ....etc etc are all top full backs who like to get forward.....but they get back too, they dont abandon defensive duties

Anyway my problem with Hinkel is not going forward...its when he is back, in defense he is rubbish....
I mean from this debate you would get a sense that Hinkel spends all his time playing on the edge of the opposition box firing crosses in

...he doesnt make challenges, he cant position himself and he is indecisive, thats why he is a bad defender...not because he pushes forward from time to time

To say if Hinkel could defend he wouldnt be in the Celtic team is a very bad indictment on the team...and I dont agree...this is going back to Strachan signing crap players, and people accepting this is the best Celtic can do....BULLSHIT.......I think more accurate would be if Hinkel could defend we would probably have lost him to the EPL as there would be more interest in signing him.....We often have great players in our team.......but must accept we may loose the best ones to the big money leagues...that doesnt mean we cant have great players in our team

Also the point about our CB's not being good enough is a pretty * excuse for Hinkels failures.....I'm not sure I get the point....Hinkel is crap but if our CB's were brilliant it would be ok that Hinkel is crap...I dont agree....All our players should be great or replaced....Hinkel is not good enough...it doesnt matter how good or bad the CB's are...

 

Do you think you're being big and clever by linking me to a definition of a word, like I don't know what it means or something? Bravo, very mature of you.

You neatly sidestep all my arguments again btw, well done once more on that.

I don't really see the point in continuing here if you're not bothered about actually responding to the points I make, and just repeating yourself.

As for your point about 6 assist... I have no idea what your talking about. Your either lying or you've got a poor source. Hinkel has 10 assists this season, which is 3 more than McGeady. From RB, in case I have to remind you.

 

You've just proved my point exactly. If Hinkel could defend properly he would either still be at Seville or an English Premiership team would have stepped in and signed him from under our noses. Which means he wouldn't ever have been in our team in the first place.

 

Ah come on...

Larsson,Petrov, Viduka, Di Canio great players ....played for Celtic then moved on to the EPL


My point is that its hard for Celtic to hold onto great players....
not that we can never have great players in our team


A lot of players will be attracted to Celtic because of regular champions league football, some will see it as a stepping stone in their career. But its not true to say we would never have been able to sign Hinkel if he was a good defender...

 

Just like Henrik was snapped away cos he was * at this SPL dross

 

They were indeed all great players mate but every one of them was signed over 10 years ago. The football world has changed so much because of the Premiership and the money that is swilling about in that league. Guys of the quality of Di Canio, Viduka and Larsson are unlikely to end up at Celtic these days because the big clubs hoover them all up.

It's going to be extremely difficult for us to get our hands on 'great' players in the near future imo. We can certainly get good ones but great ones I'm not so sure. You talk about us offering them Champions League football as well, in 2 or 3 years time the way our co-efficient is heading we won't even be able to offer that. It's a grim prospect but that's where things are headed at the moment.

Of course having said that we can't just give up. We must keep working hard and scouting as far and wide as we can to find talented youngsters or quality players who might be unhappy at their club and just want to get out. That's what happened with Henrik if you recall.

Hopefully we can unearth a few gems and mix them with a few older players who aren't quite good enough for the very top anymore but still have talent and would relish the challenge of playing for a big club like Celtic. That's the way forward for us as far as I can see.

 

don't know that, some of the managers don't know good players, just look at arjen robben, to me he must be the best left footed player in the world just now, sold to bayern Munich scored a double on his debut game, the managers that had him still don't know what to look for in a player

 

Ki has just signed....he is a promising player, who has just be named young player of the year in Asia....

are we to presume now he can never be a great player?

I agree its more and more difficult to dig out great players.....

I think under Strachan we didnt try to unearth any gems though, we signed players of a certain, limited, standard like Hinkel, Robson, Flood, Loovens. We now accept them as good players because its all we've got, but we must aspire to a higher standard or the downward spiral will continue ....and then we will be *.

It was as if we didnt sign players good enough for the EPL on purpose, so as not to loose them or something, or so they wouldnt attract interest and demand higher wages...

I think we should always look for improvement and aspire to greatness.
Otherwise we accept our lot and finish 2nd to Rangers again this year and the downward spiral continues
Thats a whole different thread/topic though

Perhaps I'm too harsh on Hinkel (and other signings Strachan made), but he is a mediocre player and I would hate if we, like this thread suggests, built him up to be this superstar right back who's gonna get goals if we push him up for corners.

 

See people talking about the world changed because of the premiership, it hasn't.

It was La Liga before the EPL, before La Liga it was Seiria A.

It effects our way of thinking because we're right next to it, saturated in it's hype every time we flick on a sports channel.

Viduka was signed from Croatia; there are more bargains in that league. Di Canio was a Donati like signing.

Better scouting is all we need.